What's OP? What's UP?

I had this idea last night that I should make a thread about everything over performing and under performing of the patch, so that if and when a new patch comes I can throw this at the mod team and say "balance it". This is primarily from a 1v1 standpoint.

A global change I'd like to implement is for most explosive and ballistic weapons to have a limited number of models it can damage per shot. This will allow higher lethality from tanks and mortars without frustrating 1 shot wipes.

ZombieFrancis idea for explosives change: Show Spoiler

Change all heavy rear armor to 110 to reward flanks.

Anyone is more than allowed to suggest things to add to this list, and it'll be edited as time goes on.

Key:
OP = Overperforming
OT = Overtuned/Slightly overperforming
UT = Undertuned/Slightly underperforming
UP = Underperforming
If there is a question mark(?) after something, it is because I am unsure of this.

Soviets
2 model sniper team(OP)
Guards(unsure what to do with them, they simply just deal with everything which isn't a great unit design)(Overtuned)
IL2 loiter(OP)
M3 clown car(? Overtuned)
Soviet PM81mm mortar (UP?)
Maxim(? UT)
Conscripts(? Too much utility, primarily "Oorah" OT)
M5 quad(? UT vs infantry. Good vs Air)
SU76 (The absolute pinacle of OP)
T34/76(? Overtuned)
T34/85 (Overly cost efficient, OP)
IS2 (Reduce scatter, moreso with explosives change, UP)
KV-1(? Potentially OT)
KV-2(Rework)
KV-8(? Potentially OT)
Forward Observation post (UT)
120mm mortar (6 man squad, 1 man to operate, range. OT)
Soveit M42 AT gun (Scales poorly. Decent turn time and damage vs lights, awful vs medium+, maybe add damage buff with vet like Su-76? UT)

USF
2x equiping BARs (Technically balanced for cost, but it makes base infantry scale too well. Overtuned)
BARs(specifically moving accuracy of 0.7 OP)
Free squads(? Personally I just don't want to be forced to play with things if I don't want them. Overtuned)
81mm mortar(boost range to 65? 70? increase teardown? UP)
M20(?) (AT mine included (OP) as well as skirts(uneccessary))
AAHT(against aircraft bugging out?)(bug)
Pak howitzer(?UP)
M4A3 Sherman(too cost efficient, OP)
M8 Scott(requires some form of projectile speed nerf or AoE or possibly range reduction, Overtuned)
M36 Jackson(OP)
M26 Pershing(With explosives change, reduce scatter)
M8 Greyhound(unsure on stats of unit but overly effective currently, OT)
Fire up!(UT)
Sherman EZ8 (OT)
Airborne support weapons costing MP instead of Munitions (Rework)

UKF
SNARES please(QoL)
Infantry section(possible nerf if snares are added)
2x brens (Allow for only 1 bren, buff to LMG42 level. OP)
6 pounder(removal of 1.5x accuracy modifier vs vehicles if snares are added)
Royal engineers (borderline overly cost efficient for 210 MP, Overtuned)
Bofors AA gun needs AA buff(UP, potentially bugged?)
Mobile mortar please(remove pit)
Centaur(Needs to either be toned down or Ostwinds needs to be buffed, OP)
Cromwell(reduce scatter, it's abysmal, UT)
Comet(Same as above ^)

Ostheer
G43s (moving accuracy toned down from 0.8, also price increase, way OP)
Grenadiers(smoother vet curve, potentially applicable to all infantry,QoL)
GrW34 mortar(? potentially fine with explosives change, Overtuned?)
Riegal AT mine(immobilize is rediculous, OP)
Ostheer sniper(I'd rather just have a cheap scout for vision and just remove snipers but that's just me)
222(buff vs snipers only, UP)
Stug G(Overly cost efficient, OP)
Ostwind(should be near centaur level of AI, Raise AA to centaur level. UP)
Brumbar(Better with explosives change, armor too high? Overtuned)
Panther(Increase stationary accuracy, Undertuned)
Panzerwerfer(Unsure how to improve, UP)
Tiger Ace(Cost fuel please, OP)
SdKfz 250 (No vet, no weapons, UP)

Aerafield's idea for panzergrenadier fausts Show Spoiler

OKW
Sturmpioneers (Overburdened)
Volksgrenadiers(UT)
Volks MP40 (UT, possible rework)
Raketen(Just a gimmick unit. I'd rather just remove it, or at least remove cloak. Undertuned)
ISG (Unsure if it's due to the projectile or lower AoEUP)
Flak Halftrack (Potentially OP)
Obersoldaten(Arriving too late to gain significant vet, smoother vet curveUndertuned)
JP4(Fix veterancy mess, potentially raise pen. Undertuned
Panther (I'd like to see something done with this similar to the Ostheer panther with the RoF. UP)
King Tiger (Reduce scatter to prenerf levels with explosives change, UP)
Fallschirmjaegar(?Very glass cannon. Undertuned)
Emergency Repair (UT)
Panzer Commander (UT)
Sturm Offizier (Good utility abilities but no vet. UT)
Luchs (Unsure what to do with this, UT)

What about we add things to the list and say either UP / OP next to it, without any further discussions? You could easily sum up all the ups/ops at the very end.

I had this idea last night that I should make a thread about everything over performing and under performing of the patch, so that if and when a new patch comes I can throw this at the mod team and say "balance it".

Anyone is more than allowed to suggest things to add to this list, and it'll be edited as time goes on.

Soviets
2 model sniper team
Guards(unsure what to do with them, they simply just deal with everything which isn't a great unit design)
IL2 loiter
M3 clown car(?)
Soviet PM81mm mortar
Conscripts(?)
Apparently M5 quad(?)
SU76
T34/76(?)
T34/85

- 2 Model Sniper Team, either make it into a clone of the OST Sniper (1 sniper model with 82 life,
SVT40 rifle with higher ROF and exploding bullets, and improved stealth).
or... how about fixing the 222? (It used to be anti-sniper/infantry with mini puma upgrade, losing
it's AF focus. I think THAT is the real problem).
- M3 Clown Car : Is necessary for dealing with MG/Bunkers as Penals don't have Sprint nor Smoke.
- Conscripts just suck. I think the issue with the PPSH upgrade is that they have oorah. (which was
removed from Penals vet 2 for a similar reason). I'd rather they were changed to Strelski with a DP28
upgrade (Make them into Grens, but that's just me)
- T34/76 I'd like to keep it as is, but I got an idea. How about you bring back the T3 T34/76 but
(yes, yes, I hear you screaming) at 100 fu. And unlocked ONLY after the T4 is built. The idea is
that you could build 2x T34/76 at once, but paying more on fu if you use the T3 one (which cannot
be used before T4 is built). Ost now have insanely cheap Tank Support building (The T3 one?)(One
that makes Pz4). USF can quick-build tanks, why can't Soviets? And it wouldn't increase the speed
at which they are made, or be a call-in. Thougths? (And, yes, this keeps the T4 T34/76 at 90 fu).
- Guards : I agree. I *HATE* that they have both AT Rifles and DP28s. 4x Heavy Weapons?
I suggest they come onto the map with only bolt Rifles and given one of 3 or 4 upgrades:
1) AT Rifles (3 AT rifles) and gains button. Gains AT Grenades?
2) DP28 (2x DP28) no other upgrade. Gains Smoke Grenades?
3) SVT40 (6x SVT40) no other upgrade
4) PPSH (6x PPSH) Gains smoke grenade. No other upgrade.

Yes, I recognize they'd then overlap with the Shock Troops, but without their armor.
Also make them be able to make Sandbags (the Conscript version). They never should have
both ATR and DP28.

Seems like another allies op thread in disguise.

So OKW is perfectly balanced since it requires no changes?

Cool.

He says "anyone can add to the list, and it will be edited as time goes on". If nobody says anything about OKW, nothing about OKW will be added.

OP things: Things that were considered UP, then patched.

UP things: Things that were considered OP, then patched.

He says "anyone can add to the list, and it will be edited as time goes on". If nobody says anything about OKW, nothing about OKW will be added.

I know, I was joking.

Oh OK, I didn't get that

So OKW is perfectly balanced since it requires no changes?

Cool.

Was still working on it

Show Spoiler Honestly I love these ideas, specifically the T34/76 one. It allows for more strategic diversity when making decisions.

Change slightly op to OT (over tuned) and slightly up to UT (under tuned)

Seems like another allies op thread in disguise.

Better now since okw was added.

add maxim (UT)
remove clown car
remove m20, m26, both m8 and sherman
at gun is already fixed (same as pak) bofors is just bugged
comet and cromwell UT
remove kubel

Not gonna comment on the list cuz I dont play 1v1 and it's from a 1v1 standpoint, however I would like to add my 2 cents about 1 thing:

I wish they would add panzerfaust to Panzergrens as long as they dont have the schreck upgrade researched. It would allow more skip t1 strats and I am REALLY tired of this hard t1 meta.... gren spam and broken turbo laser accuracy mortars every single match. I also dont see how it would be unfair or OP if panzergrens get faust.

Sadly I cant agree with every second OP/OT on this list many UP/UTs are baseless as well. Not to mention that giving snares to the brits non doctrinally is hardly a QoL change, more like throwing current design out of the window.

If you want to get a list like this, it would be much better to start with a poll.

Also mind that these are the units that seem imballanced to you in the current state of the game. If anything in the game changes, including somebody discovering a new strategy/build, these will be invalid. Even after changing some of these units, other may not feel wrong. Changing so many units would just kick the game from the fairly ballanced point it is in now to some completely random place.

A global change I'd like to implement is for most explosive and balistic weapons to have a limited number of models it can damage per shot. This will allow higher lethality from tanks and mortars without frustrating 1 shot wipes.

Rather than limit damage to members in a squad, which I really dislike, one could adjust the blast radius profiles to create a smaller lethal radius for full health entities. At the same time, making a larger radius for small to moderate damage would give mortars more consistent damage to static positions, and more reliably damaging their barrage AoE with less total misses and total wipes alike.

Statwise:

Reduce mortar AoE near distance from 1 to something like 0.1 or 0.25.
Increase mortar AoE far distance from 3 to 4 and/or increase damage from 0.005 to 0.025-0.05
Adjust mortar AoE mid distance or increase AoE mid damage slightly.

The 120mm and the various HE shells could retain more their destructive radius. Or be reduced from 1.1 or 1.5 depending on mortar.

Soviets
2 model sniper team(OP)
Guards(unsure what to do with them, they simply just deal with everything which isn't a great unit design)(Overtuned)
IL2 loiter(OP)
M3 clown car(? Overtuned)
Soviet PM81mm mortar (UP?)
Conscripts(? Too much utility, primarily "Oorah" OT)
Apparently M5 quad(? UP)
SU76 (The absolute pinacle of OP)
T34/76(? Overtuned)
T34/85 (Overly cost efficient, OP)
IS2 (Reduce scatter, moreso with explosives change, UP)

Quad is actually one of the best AA guns in game. It shoots down planes even at first pass.

KV-1 one is also too cost efficient.

KV-2 needs an overhaul and lower rear armor

Isu-152 needs lower rear armor

Quad is actually one of the best AA guns in game. It shoots down planes even at first pass.

KV-1 one is also too cost efficient.

KV-2 needs an overhaul and lower rear armor

Isu-152 needs lower rear armor

so
kv-1 OT
kv2 UP
isu OT
remove quad right ?

Quad is actually one of the best AA guns in game. It shoots down planes even at first pass.

KV-1 one is also too cost efficient.

KV-2 needs an overhaul and lower rear armor

Isu-152 needs lower rear armor

You should really get your own 'Soviets OP' subforum in the ballance section. What you write is surely fun to read, but I think ShadowLinkX37 wanted some serious ballance discussion here.

...
remove quad right ?

Generally speaking planes need an overhaul. Imo instead of being shot down so frequently they should be instead suffer "suppression" from AA and thus have reduced efficiency according to number of AA hits them.

Currently the quad is clearly not UP as an AA.