Mortars/Indirect have broken the game

Plus the leig has smoke now, so if you somehow use your SUPPORT weapon to SUPPORT your infantry (ive yet to see an mg pinning enemies through smoke) you can - and i know when we talk about okw this is extremely radical- use a combined force to attack the enemy. Volks have flame nades, they have 2 commanders with nade volleys, they have non doc STGs. A maxim that cant shoot (hell even ine that CAN shoot) isnt much of a threat at all. And its not like a faust where you spend the resources and ots gone if you dont manage to kill the enemy, the leig will ALSO help against every other MG you face, it will help against every AT gun, every mortar and every single squad of infantry that decides to stand still for a moment. And when you lose it (if you do) it can add 5 fuel (woooo) towards your next tank.

Totally agree. It's become the game of indirect. Stand still for a moment, and risk an rng squad wipe. Need to auto would be good, but UKF still suffer early from the lack of a mobile mortar.

One could lower damage from auto to 70 and leave barrage to 80.

Or one could lower HP to hmg and mortars to 60 with target size of 1 and lower damage to 64.

If you ever played axis, you would have ranted years ago.

Why you have to play a faction to have a good idea about it

this forum gets better every day, wow.

can i have this quote for my signature?

One could lower damage from auto to 70 and leave barrage to 80.

Or one could lower HP to hmg and mortars to 60 with target size of 1 and lower damage to 64.

Lowering HP means that other things are deadlier against them. Light vehicles and tanks chasing have a much easier time, while any grenades means basically a wipe on them (even behind heavy cover). Even more nuke nades. Not gonna mention offmaps.

For early game, 60HP means it alters some match ups and recrewing weapons becomes much more appealing even if it has a higher reinforce cost.
Not sure if you meant to reduce their HP to 64 or 60, but i guess at 64 it would remain the same against small arm fire.

PD: i'm in favour for nerfing auto and buffing barrage.

Lowering HP means that other things are deadlier against them. Light vehicles and tanks chasing have a much easier time, while any grenades means basically a wipe on them (even behind heavy cover). Even more nuke nades. Not gonna mention offmaps.

For early game, 60HP means it alters some match ups and recrewing weapons becomes much more appealing even if it has a higher reinforce cost.
Not sure if you meant to reduce their HP to 64 or 60, but i guess at 64 it would remain the same against small arm fire.

PD: i'm in favour for nerfing auto and buffing barrage.

The penalty could come from the weapon itself so it would apply to re-crewed teams also.

Grenades could actually use a reduction in damage with some bonuses vs heavy/garrison to compensate. They could become a bit harder to avoid but lowering the chance to wipe.

Nerfing auto fire is the way to do it.

The book says... If you play Brits mainly, your opinion doesn't count Kappa

The book says... If you play Brits mainly, your opinion doesn't count Kappa

I agree 200%. Brit only players like Latch are by far the most ignorant. First I thought it was USF players but UKF players bring ignorance to a whole new level. Just look at his playercard ffs. All brits. Dear Latch, please realize one thing: the ONLY way to go toe-to-toe against Brits right now is to spam indirect. Basically all 1v1 Brits get nothing but sections and upgrade 5man ASAP. Grens can't hold a candle to 4man sections let alone 5man. Same story with the nerfed volks. Snipers only work on open maps and to further insult Ost, it somehow costs more to reinforce grens which have RA of .91 vs .8 of sections. As well, sections got their out of cover performance buffed. The AEC makes axis light vehicles obsolete. Brits don't even need the mortar pit (vs mgs) due to dirt cheap nade tech. 100mp and 10f?!!! Are you fking kidding me? Flamer bren carreier also does the trick quite well. WHAT DO U EXPECT AXIS PLAYERS TO DO??!!!!!!

It's not the mortars. It's the model spacing, AS ALWAYS.

They've promised to fix this SEVERAL TIMES now across several major patches, and squads are STILL being instantly wiped from full health by a single mortar shell, grenade, etc.

Squads STILL bunch up in a tiny space for no reason, still take absurd damage from explosions while in cover, and still refuse to spread out wide anywhere except when standing in an open field.

The simple fact is that the devs can't fix the squad spacing issue. It's been promised, it's been attempted, and it appears to simply not be possible.

Currently, there are two states for a squad: bunched up so tightly that a single mortar shell wipes the entire squad from full health, or spread out so far across half a square mile of open terrain (especially the five and six man squads for the Soviets and USF) that a grenade or shell can only hit a single model.

Model spacing is SCREWED, and mortar/explosive problems are a symptom of that core, critical issue.

It's not the mortars. It's the model spacing, AS ALWAYS.

They've promised to fix this SEVERAL TIMES now across several major patches, and squads are STILL being instantly wiped from full health by a single mortar shell, grenade, etc.

Squads STILL bunch up in a tiny space for no reason, still take absurd damage from explosions while in cover, and still refuse to spread out wide anywhere except when standing in an open field.

The simple fact is that the devs can't fix the squad spacing issue. It's been promised, it's been attempted, and it appears to simply not be possible.

Currently, there are two states for a squad: bunched up so tightly that a single mortar shell wipes the entire squad from full health, or spread out so far across half a square mile of open terrain (especially the five and six man squads for the Soviets and USF) that a grenade or shell can only hit a single model.

Model spacing is SCREWED, and mortar/explosive problems are a symptom of that core, critical issue.

They DID fixed spacing, but if you insists on putting your squads into tiniest yellow cover patches, then they WILL all get into cover and get OHK'd, because that's how cover functions and you can't do anything about it, don't get behind non green cover against these and squad will not clump.

OKW have plenty of doctrinal counters for the doctrinal soviet threat of 120s. You have Feuersturm Incendiary muni for leig, Overwatch has a stealthing mobile detpack, Luftwaffe has Falls, and Scavenge has Jaegers. not to mention a plethora of offmap arty callins.

Also, the leig has a barrage range that is equal to a 120 at Vet 0 and increases at Vet 1 while the 120 must wait till Vet 3 to get a range increase. The leig also has a faster rate of fire. All with less popcap and less MP required.

Have you actually used any of those things? For one getting a goliath across half the map without being spotted or heard is pretty naive. For two, OKW doesn't have a plethora of offmaps, not any that are particularly effective at killing a 120mm, saying that they do shows your ignorance. For three Falls may be effective, but they still expensive and have the high chance that they will be wiped on retreat. For four Jaegers would take a year and a day to kill a 120mm with their little DPS.

And have you actually used a LeIG barrage? 4 shells with little AOE will never kill a 120. And in comparison the 120 can just kill the LeIG with barrages or auto attacks.

Well, sov mortar was always terribad, pit got massive nerfs, ISG was brought in line, USF mortar lost quite a bit of range and PACK howi, well, no one even remembers it ever existed so yeah, only wm turbomortar is spreading the mortar cancer.

After bazzilion nerfs it got to every singular stat that isn't model count, its fine.

actually use the flare and kill all the OP WM mortar, the soviet one has way better barrage ability
btw all mortar needs an aa scatter in fow nerf and a ROF nerf

Have you actually used any of those things? For one getting a goliath across half the map without being spotted or heard is pretty naive. For two, OKW doesn't have a plethora of offmaps, not any that are particularly effective at killing a 120mm, saying that they do shows your ignorance. For three Falls may be effective, but they still expensive and have the high chance that they will be wiped on retreat. For four Jaegers would take a year and a day to kill a 120mm with their little DPS.

And have you actually used a LeIG barrage? 4 shells with little AOE will never kill a 120. And in comparison the 120 can just kill the LeIG with barrages or auto attacks.

A non-doctrinal leig shouldn't be a perfect counter to a doctrinal 120mm mortar considering the popcap and mp cost for each.

As far as the goliath is concerned you can always create a diversion elsewhere on the map to draw away attention.

Don't jaegers and falls have grenades?

You also have a squad wiping monster that is the stuka. I know it is hit or miss but even having one on the field creates pressure on your opponent.

Well, sov mortar was always terribad.

the soviet mortar's lower firing rate was balanced by the fact it had a six men crew like everything else.

the enlarged crew isn't as useful for the mortar as it is for the atg and maxim but it still come in handy (arty duel). Lastly, even with the lower firing rate the mortar was still okay enough.


vet0 flare is just providing too much synergy for the sov. It's just too simple for the Soviet to flare and barrage the axis into oblivion.

The soviets are already the most artillery resistant faction in the game due to their squad size, and with the flare their artillery are also the most efficient.


The Scatter bonus/penalty are there to reward faction who use frontline and support unit together.

It forces the player to put their own unit at risk by limiting the effectiveness of blind artillery. The british have the best scouting of all five faction in the game and also subsequently the worst artillery aside from post-release dlc. 50-60 sight unit are also typically weak in combat in mid-late game. Snipers are expensive.

the soviet mortar's lower firing rate was balanced by the fact it had a six men crew like everything else.

I'll let you on a little secret:

Mortars are not exactly meant to be a damage sponges.
If offensive capabilities of indirect weapon fall short, then that indirect weapon is shit.
Perfect example ie MEME PACK howitzer. Only thing keeping sov mortar in game was precision strike, the moment it was removed, the weapon became utter shit. Only recently it begun to be decent-ish with flare, which indeed is a great ability.

the enlarged crew isn't as useful for the mortar as it is for the atg and maxim but it still come in handy (arty duel). Lastly, even with the lower firing rate the mortar was still okay enough.

Crew size is irrelevant when opposing ordnance fires 3 times faster.
Only way how sov mortar could win mortar duel was precision strike. Both of them firing at each other in similar conditions, sov mortar will lose ever single time, excluding lucky first shots. Again, flare balances that a tiny bit, but that's still a munition usage just to stand a chance.
If durability was an actual factor, dual ost mortar would not obliterate mortar pit and I'm talking about pre-nerfs pit.

vet0 flare is just providing too much synergy for the sov. It's just too simple for the Soviet to flare and barrage the axis into oblivion.

IR halftruck anyone? Exactly the same thing, but on a much wider scale and muni free.
Only difference is, no scatter penalty in flare case, but very low RoF balances it out perfectly.

The soviets are already the most artillery resistant faction in the game due to their squad size, and with the flare their artillery are also the most efficient.

You have never used dual ost mortar or pwerfer firing from half range or closer, have you?
Artillery is as potent as its rate of fire is. Volume of barrage is much more important then precision of it, now that we do not have precision strikes in game anymore and soviet artillery does not stand up to that, unless we talk about massed SU-76 barrages.

The Scatter bonus/penalty are there to reward faction who use frontline and support unit together.

Anything preventing axis factions to use that?

It forces the player to put their own unit at risk by limiting the effectiveness of blind artillery. The british have the best scouting of all five faction in the game and also subsequently the worst artillery aside from post-release dlc. 50-60 sight unit are also typically weak in combat in mid-late game. Snipers are expensive.

What scouting of brits you are talking about here?
Excluding axis lights, its the soviet mortar that provides best scouting in game.

I'll let you on a little secret:

Mortars are not exactly meant to be a damage sponges.
If offensive capabilities of indirect weapon fall short, then that indirect weapon is shit.
Perfect example ie MEME PACK howitzer. Only thing keeping sov mortar in game was precision strike, the moment it was removed, the weapon became utter shit. Only recently it begun to be decent-ish with flare, which indeed is a great ability.


Crew size is irrelevant when opposing ordnance fires 3 times faster.
Only way how sov mortar could win mortar duel was precision strike. Both of them firing at each other in similar conditions, sov mortar will lose ever single time, excluding lucky first shots. Again, flare balances that a tiny bit, but that's still a munition usage just to stand a chance.
If durability was an actual factor, dual ost mortar would not obliterate mortar pit and I'm talking about pre-nerfs pit.



IR halftruck anyone? Exactly the same thing, but on a much wider scale and muni free.
Only difference is, no scatter penalty in flare case, but very low RoF balances it out perfectly.


You have never used dual ost mortar or pwerfer firing from half range or closer, have you?
Artillery is as potent as its rate of fire is. Volume of barrage is much more important then precision of it, now that we do not have precision strikes in game anymore and soviet artillery does not stand up to that, unless we talk about massed SU-76 barrages.


Anything preventing axis factions to use that?



What scouting of brits you are talking about here?
Excluding axis lights, its the soviet mortar that provides best scouting in game.

Mortar still take damage. They are primary target for counter-barrage and the inevitable counter attack. You can say that people will always retreat when in danger, but having those two extra crew member allow the soviet to play use mortar more aggressively.

the pack howitzer is another kind of mess.

the 81mm doesn't fire "3x faster" than the 82mm

81mm: 4 sec reload + 4 wind down/up + .5 fire aim time = 8.5
barrage: 0 reload + 4 w d/u + .125 FAT = 4.125


82mm: 7.5 sec reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .5 fire aim time = 11.125
barrage: 3.575 reload + 3.125 windw down/up + .125 FAT = 6.825

11.125/ 8.5 = 1.30

the 82mm auto fire is 30% slower and the barrage fire is 70% slower. A better buff to the 82mm would have been to buff the rof of the 82mm to reward micro.

the IR halftrack is a dedicated scouting unit. It has no weapon and no other purpose than to "paint" target for artillery.


british pyro upgrade increase their sight by 15 and the bonus stack with their vet 1. This mean a vet 1 pyro tommies get 60 sight in cover. The cover being kind of trivial since they can build sandbag. If you are far enough to use the 60 sight you are far enough to build sandbags.

The Scatter bonus/penalty are there to reward faction who use frontline and support unit together.


Anything preventing axis factions to use that?

the point is that axis have to use that, but the flare means the soviet don't

the 82mm auto fire is 30% slower and the barrage fire is 70% slower. A better buff to the 82mm would have been to buff the rof of the 82mm to reward micro.

your % seems to be off. (maybe 65% slower?)

It is all worth noting that PM41 has less scatter in the barrage.

the IR halftrack is a dedicated scouting unit. It has no weapon and no other purpose than to "paint" target for artillery.

Main difference here is that IR does reduce the penalty in scatter (accuracy) for firing in the FOW as flares do.

It's bloody spacing...

And NOT just in cover, like someone above pretended.

There are COUNTLESS situations in which units will bunch up into a tiny spot for no good reason, including on the move, when exiting buildings, moving through gaps in walls, vaulting walls, etc. etc. etc. -- all the time.

I've had my units instawiped by every Allied mortar, I've instawiped units with the Ostheer mortar but never the LeiG, since it's utter trash that has no splash and no redeeming qualities whatsoever (terrible damage, no splash, and can't retreat, like some kind of sick joke, only downsides, no upsides).

If there's one thing wrong with mortars is that it's EVER possible for the first shot to hit a unit directly. That simply shouldn't be possible, yet I observe it all the time. First shot fired, hits instantly, either wiping several models or wiping the entire squad.