The Puma costs 320 MP, 70 FU, the M10 Wolverine costs 300 MP, 90 FU.
The Puma has Aimed Shot, smoke canisters, a lackluster MG, slightly more agility and much greater LoS than the M10 (50 vs 30).
The Wolverine is tougher, has a more powerful gun and comes out significantly later in the game than the Puma.
If there's any vehicle to compare to Puma to it's the AEC, not medium tank destroyers.
The OKW Puma
5 Mar 2018, 14:26 PM
#21
Posts: 3260
5 Mar 2018, 15:00 PM
#23
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Ahh, they definitely dont cost the same.
M10 is 100 fuel I think, Puma is 70?
==========
M36 is 140 fuel and takes more tech. Is also 14 pop.
Puma is 70 fuel and is ... 7 pop?
Puma has higher DPS than Jackson (which is double the cost and the pop and the tech) at short range.
Puma has free smoke
Puma has MG (Jackson does not)
Puma comes earlier
Puma has a stun/cripple shot ability, like the StuIIIG and Stuart, but without vet requirement.
You can have two Pumas for the same pop/cost as a single jackson and each can have higher dps.
===========
M10 is 100 fu not 70 fu
M10 comes later than before, thanks to tech requirement. Much higher tech required than Puma
Puma has more range than M10
Puma has MG. M10 does not.
Puma has smoke
Puma has cripple shot. M10 does not
Let's compare apples and pears again.
Which is rounder?
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
5 Mar 2018, 15:13 PM
#24
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
Puma has more range than M10
....
No it does not range is the same at 50.
Puma has smoke
Puma has cripple shot. M10 does not
M10 has flank speed.
M10 has AP rounds.
Puma does not.
5 Mar 2018, 15:25 PM
#25
Posts: 2243
ah...i forgot that you get the puma from t0 building as OKW.
5 Mar 2018, 15:39 PM
#27
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
M10 has AP rounds.
Puma does not.
Since M10 is a doctrinal unit, we can freely argue doctrines supporting the unit as well.
Or you'd rather pretend M10 isn't tied to a doctrine?
Now, if we take into account certain ability from Elite Armor doctrine, Puma ends up with higher damage(vetted+HEAT rounds) and pretty damn good penetration for the cost, therefore DPS of Puma will be higher against ALL targets, but frontally engaged heavy tanks at max range.
I'm uncertain if HEAT rounds increase range.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Mar 2018, 16:47 PM
#29
Posts: 571
Since M10 is a doctrinal unit, we can freely argue doctrines supporting the unit as well.
Or you'd rather pretend M10 isn't tied to a doctrine?
Now, if we take into account certain ability from Elite Armor doctrine, Puma ends up with higher damage(vetted+HEAT rounds) and pretty damn good penetration for the cost, therefore DPS of Puma will be higher against ALL targets, but frontally engaged heavy tanks at max range.
I'm uncertain if HEAT rounds increase range.
HEAT does not increase range
The real advantage of the M10 over the Puma imo is pathing.
It crushes walls, it doesnt go spastic around them.
6 Mar 2018, 09:02 AM
#30
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I am not sure if there is any point in this post.
The facts are simple M10 has AP rounds available in its kit, Puma does not.
If you want to argue that Puma is more cost efficient unit than the M10 go ahead.
6 Mar 2018, 09:08 AM
#31
Posts: 1273
I am not sure if there is any point in this post.
The facts are simple M10 has AP rounds available in its kit, Puma does not.
I agree with Katitof, this is a valid point. This is also underlined by the Puma Vs Pershing video that is making its rounds around the forum. He argued that if certain commander abilities from the Elite Armor doctrines are taken into account (e.g. HEAT) and applied, the Puma may end up with good DPS against valid targets, albeit against frontally heavy tanks at max range. It is a good point! However, most Units are often used in the game in conjunction of other units and abilities, and not in a void. Sometimes RNG Gods are also to blame. Hope this helps you to comprehend his point in his post!
6 Mar 2018, 09:22 AM
#32
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I agree with Katitof, this is a valid point. This is also underlined by the Puma Vs Pershing video that is making its rounds around the forum. He argued that if certain commander abilities from the Elite Armor doctrines are taken into account (e.g. HEAT) and applied, the Puma may end up with good DPS against valid targets, albeit against frontally heavy tanks at max range. It is a good point! However, most Units are often used in the game in conjunction of other units and abilities, and not in a void. Sometimes RNG Gods are also to blame. Hope this helps you to comprehend his point in his post!
And the Fact remains M10 has AP round Puma does not.
6 Mar 2018, 09:23 AM
#33
Posts: 1273
I did not say otherwise! There's nothing wrong at all to look at the inclusion of doctorinal abilities!
6 Mar 2018, 09:40 AM
#34
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
And the Fact remains M10 has AP round Puma does not.
There is also this other fact that Puma can have them too.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Mar 2018, 12:15 PM
#35
Posts: 911
Puma has higher DPS than Jackson (which is double the cost and the pop and the tech) at short range.
"At short range"
Did you purposely choose that specific requirement that would never happen in game, just to support your position?
Imagine my playercard is here
6 Mar 2018, 16:47 PM
#36
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
"At short range"
Did you purposely choose that specific requirement that would never happen in game, just to support your position?
You have literally a vid going round the forums with Puma murdering Pershing at around 20 range or less, frontally.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Mar 2018, 18:01 PM
#37
Posts: 4474
really low chance if u want u can do the math 300 FA vs 120/160 pen + 30% pen and 0.5 moving acc
You have literally a vid going round the forums with Puma murdering Pershing at around 20 range or less, frontally.
and the pershing missed all his shoots with 0.75 moving acc just a lucky streak
but u can play heartstone if u want more rng clownfiesta
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
6 Mar 2018, 18:14 PM
#38
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
really low chance if u want u can do the math 300 FA vs 120/160 pen + 30% pen and 0.5 moving acc
and the pershing missed all his shoots with 0.75 moving acc just a lucky streak
but u can play heartstone if u want more rng clownfiesta
66% is not "really low chance".
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Mar 2018, 18:19 PM
#39
Posts: 4474
add not killing the puma too, it needed 3 shots
66% is not "really low chance".
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
6 Mar 2018, 18:41 PM
#40
Posts: 2742
66% is not "really low chance".
I would say thats a pretty pedantic response. Try to predict the outcome of 66% odds. That's the gamble that's being made. I think it's safe to say it's chances are unreliable which one can say is "too low" a chance.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
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http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
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