The OKW Puma

"The SdKfz 234 known as the 'Puma', the SdKfz 234 is an eight-wheeled armoured reconnaissance vehicle."

The Puma is build in the mechanized regiment headquarters and cost and it cost 320/70.

Like the Sdkfz 222 scout car it has 50 sight radius making a good scouting vehicle but it is more heavily armored and has an AT gun. It is also armed with mg similar to Sdkfz 222.

Unlike the "Luch" reconnaissance light tank that specializes in AI the "Puma" specializes in AT although it mg will still harm infantry and its vet 1 ability can be used to kill soft targets.

Since it's AT gun with its 50 range out-ranges the standard range of medium tanks of 40, one would assume that it can easily be used for kitting similar to M36 "Jackson". That would be false because in the differences in main gun performance of the 2 vehicles.

M36 "Jackson" has a gun with relatively horizontal penetration, accuracy and reload profiles:
near/mid/far 0/30/60
Damage 160
Penetration 260/240/220
Accuracy 5%/4.5%/3.5%
Accuracy multiplier moving 0.75
Reload duration 4.38-4.97

Puma
near/mid/far 10/30/50
Damage 120
Penetration 160/120/80
Accuracy 5%/3.75%/2.5%
Accuracy multiplier moving 0.5
Reload duration 3.6-4.1

If one look at the numbers one will notice:
Puma has near and mid range further away than most vehicles
That Puma doubles its penetration and accuracy from max range to minimum range while M36 only gains a x118% x142% advantage.

That translates that Puma benefits allot more in sort ranges than M36, while the M36 does fine in long distance even moving.

The chance of a Puma damaging even the cheapest medium frontally at max range are not really that good:
A Puma firing at T34/76 at range 50 has a 55% chance of hitting it and 53% of penetrating lowering the chance to do damage to 29%. Things become even worse if one tries to move and kite since the accuracy will drop by x50% resulting in a 15% chance.

The Puma thou becomes allot better in sorter ranges.

The effect of range can be easily demonstrated in this DPS comparison between M36 and Puma firing on T34/76.



The Puma start with less than half DPS of the Jackson at range 50 but by range 22 it has more DPS.

The use of the unit is much closer to that M10 than that of the M36.

So the issue now it how does the Puma utilizes its potential since it is fragile.

Well it has to flank or use its abilities. The abilities that help it in this are "smoke" and the vet 1 ability of "aimed shot".

"Aimed shot" will always hit and will have the following effects on vehicles:
Turret-less Tds "stun"
Light vehicles "engine damage"
Tanks "Turret lock"
(the ability as far I can remember has no effect on a couple of vehicles,it can also be used vs soft targets)

All this affect help the Puma to close in take advantage of high sort range DPS.

I hope this thread will help clarify things about the "Puma" .

Sorry, but I don't get the comparison to the jackson. They have completely different roles. I know you would like to compare anything to jackson this patch but it doesn't work like that.

Sorry, but I don't get the comparison to the jackson. They have completely different roles. I know you would like to compare anything to jackson this patch but it doesn't work like that.

You got all wrong, I did not want to compare the Puma with M36 and I do point out in OP that they are different and the Puma is closer to M10.

Others thou do compare the M36 with the Puma, I am simply clarifying their differences.

It is nice to see that you actually agree with me that they have "completely different roles".

You got all wrong, I did not want to compare the Puma with M36 and I do point out in OP that they are different and the Puma is closer to M10.

Others thou do compare the M36 with the Puma, I am simply clarifying their differences.

It is nice to see that you actually agree with me that they have "completely different roles".

Yeah, M10 is very close to Puma in the use, although since its tied to tech it comes much later and thus is useless. Still, comparing the dps in the graph to m10, would make much more sense.

Yeah, M10 is very close to Puma in the use, although since its tied to tech it comes much later and thus is useless. Still, comparing the dps in the graph to m10, would make much more sense.

I would made more sense if was talking about the balance of the Puma.

I am simply trying to illustrate the differences between the Puma and other turreted TDs, since there are some people that claim that one should never flank with a Puma.

Also it has been suggested that the M36 could (instead of getting HP) become a "puma on steroids". I explained that that would be redundant since it already there in the form of M10.

One could simply swamp the M10 and M36 as doctrinal and stock and adjust the unit accordingly.

M36 and Puma comparison? I dont understand what the point of this whole thread is....

It's a bit of a fair comparison since both vehicles are Tank Destroyer units, there is a difference in their class, sure, but both have the same role.

isn't this a duplicate thread?

https://www.coh2.org/topic/68096/about-jacksons/page/5


the original thread is still on the subject of jackson vs puma and now this thread pop up.

I would made more sense if was talking about the balance of the Puma.

I am simply trying to illustrate the differences between the Puma and other turreted TDs, since there are some people that claim that one should never flank with a Puma.

Also it has been suggested that the M36 could (instead of getting HP) become a "puma on steroids". I explained that that would be redundant since it already there in the form of M10.

One could simply swamp the M10 and M36 as doctrinal and stock and adjust the unit accordingly.

But why aren't you looking at the Puma penetration vs light tanks which are its primary target? Why don't you pick Puma vs Stuart or Puma vs T70 or AEC?

M36 and Puma comparison? I dont understand what the point of this whole thread is....

There has been a number of post that where "misinformed" about that Puma and made claims that where not true like:
A Puma should never flank
A Puma is not a reconnaissance vehicle
A Puma is great at Kitting medium Tanks

The point of this thread is to clarify the characteristics of the Puma and put and end the misinformation about it.

isn't this a duplicate thread?..
the original thread is still on the subject of jackson vs puma and now this thread pop up.

No it is not, this thread is about the Puma the other one is about M36.
I also find the comment rather weird on the one hand you seem to complain that M36 thread is derailed because the Puma (which you brought up) is actually debated and on the other hand you seem to now complain that there is a new thread specifically about the Puma.

But why aren't you looking at the Puma penetration vs light tanks which are its primary target? Why don't you pick Puma vs Stuart or Puma vs T70 or AEC?

And why would I do that? This it thread illustrating the characteristics of the Puma and clarifying misinformation about the unit. This thread is in the lobby and it is not a balance thread.

A Puma is great at Kitting medium Tanks

Well, for T34s, yeah, this is true. Cromwells, however, are way too maneuverable, and Jacksons have the range.

No it is not, this thread is about the Puma the other one is about M36.
I also find the comment rather weird on the one hand you seem to complain that M36 thread is derailed because the Puma (which you brought up) is actually debated and on the other hand you seem to now complain that there is a new thread specifically about the Puma.

the first post in the thread is mainly a comparison to the m36 and rest of the thread follow suit. This is a thin veiled duplicated thread.

the first post in the thread is mainly a comparison to the m36 and rest of the thread follow suit. This is a thin veiled duplicated thread.

What is the point of continuing down this path? Do you want me to explain Puma's strength and weakness in a M36 thread?

This is thread about the OKW Puma, the M36 is only used to illustrate the differences in the weapon profiles, it could have easily used a SU-85 or a FF, would that make you feel better?

Do you have anything even remotely relevant to the Puma, to do add to this thread?

I would like to stats on which tanks (if any) it can out brawl when it gets its vet.

I would like to stats on which tanks (if any) it can out brawl when it gets its vet.

it can brawl "equally" just about all of them, but it's a waste.

You don't want to be trading shot using the puma. against medium tank you will want to out-range or out flank it.

The main benefit of the puma is the fact it can roll over allied light tank and does an okay job at harrying the medium tank until your tank arrive.

I would like to stats on which tanks (if any) it can out brawl when it gets its vet.

You will have to be a bit more specific, since this is all theoretical.

Imo in game tests with cheat mode would give you safer results. If I was to bet I wouldn't consider Puma as safe bet on slugfest with even T-34/76 at range of 40 even if vet 5.

Puma has to much better chance if it flanking or using its "aim shot" ability to target lock.

That is why it is more of "flanker" and less of a "kiter".

the puma is so much weaker than the m36...but on the same cost.

pumas cost/ power is far away from be good.

it will penetratet by anything, must standing to hit somethings and have so less penetration that it woill bounce an far range ..even on shermans and t34....so no...its not a good turrent TD ....compared to other turrended TDs

the puma is so much weaker than the m36...but on the same cost.

Ahhh, they definitely dont cost the same.

Ahhh, they definitely dont cost the same.

i mean the m10

i mean the m10

Ahh, they definitely dont cost the same.

M10 is 100 fuel I think, Puma is 70?