Ostheer in a Nutshell

Like how brits "give up" double lmg upgrades, mortar pit, t0 lv, cheap healing on the fucking field and a non-doc puma?

Brits need to tech for nades and weapon upgrades. They also dont have a mobile indirect fire unit. They also dont have snares. They also lack capping power in 1v1. So I dont think the comparison is really all that relevant. Brits are a bad design as is but that doesnt mean they dont have weaknesses.

5 man Grenadier squads would make Ostheer totally OP.

As I said Ostheer isnt even underpowered right now (especially compared to OKW).

Brits need to tech for nades and weapon upgrades. They also dont have a mobile indirect fire unit. They also dont have snares. They also lack capping power in 1v1. So I dont think the comparison is really all that relevant. Brits are a bad design as is but that doesnt mean they dont have weaknesses.

5 man Grenadier squads would make Ostheer totally OP.

As I said Ostheer isnt even underpowered right now (especially compared to OKW).

u know battle phases are tech right ? they also dont have emplacment like the 17 pounder right ? u know ost doesn't have a light tank ?

u know battle phases are tech right ? they also dont have emplacment like the 17 pounder right ? u know ost doesn't have a light tank ?

Right. Teching up to get to T2/3/4 is totally the same as teching to get nades for your mainline infantry. Makes no difference whatsoever. How could I ever forget.

Ost has howitzer and Pak 43. So what´s ur point?

Anyways I give up. Ost is totally underpowered, you guys are right.

Brits need to tech for nades and weapon upgrades...

If in your opinion things that come with teching are "free" and Ostheer get "free" grenades and weapons upgrades, UKF get "free":

(Platoon command post)
"free" Pyrotechnics
"free" medic kits
"free" wasp
"free" forward assembly
"free" mortars pits
"free" +1 25P pounder
(company command post)
"free" 17p
"free" +1 25P pounder

(Anvil)
"free" airbust shells
"free" advanced warning
"free" heavy engineers

(Hammer)
"free" Gamon bombs (snare)
"free" truck vehicle
"free" war speed

and Ostheer hardly have an advantage in the teching field.

If in your opinion things that come with teching are "free" and Ostheer get "free" grenades and weapons upgrades, UKF get "free":

What does this have to do with adding a 5th man to grenadiers?

What does this have to do with adding a 5th man to grenadiers?

You should ask yourself that question since you claimed that Ostheer get "free" grenades and weapon upgrades and then used it as an argument for not getting 5 member. UKF get a tone of "free" things yet they also get a 5 member.

The weapon upgrades and Grenades come with the Tech cost of BP 1 the same way other factions get other things for "free" with teching.

The claim about "free" things for Ostheer, simply does not hold much water.

And actually I personally disagree with non elite, powerful lmg, squads with more than 4 members.

u know battle phases are tech right ? they also dont have emplacment like the 17 pounder right ? u know ost doesn't have a light tank ?

Do you really need to be taught a lesson on the difference between natural teching and side costs?

Do you really need to be taught a lesson on the difference between natural teching and side costs?

How Many Times Do We Have To Teach You This Lesson Old Man?
225 for full tech ost
225 for full tech brits + granade + weapons
wow all those free granade
+ brit can pay 30 fu for 5 men and 15 fuel for light tank or aa emplacment

Do you really need to be taught a lesson on the difference between natural teching and side costs?

Side tech has the advantage that the player has choices when and if to invest in something.

Ostheer grenades and weapon upgrades are not "free" they need BP 1 research.

On the other hand Allied call-in grenades are "free" (don't remember if OKW need a truck or not).

Thinks the major does not cost 120 fuel but only cost manpower.

For the sake of balance, grens and other 4 man squads should recrew with 2 and should be more immune to explosive damage

you know what? its lelic bupllpudding fault once gardening again.

"this teamweapon takes 2 models to recrew"
*you recrew it with a 3 model squad*
*squad disappears and you got a 3 model teamweapon*

and thats bullpudding

You wanna talk about losing your first man quick go look at USF riflemen, that damn guy has a death wish I swear.

Ive noticed that also, literally 2 seconds into an engagement and one model always seems to die

Ive noticed that also, literally 2 seconds into an engagement and one model always seems to die

He like trips on a rock or something and its only that guy making engagements dumb as you instantly lose DPS

He like trips on a rock or something and its only that guy making engagements dumb as you instantly lose DPS

Perhaps it is an inside joke, a reference to war movies where the squad has 4 named people and a random "redshirt".

On topic, I'd love to see a 1-month meta where everyone plays the exact same army (all Ost or all Sov or whatever). It seems like the forums have a few groups/clusters of thought, and one is "Make all units as equal as possible with only minor deviations [warcraft 2 style]" and the other is "Make the armies as uniquely different as possible but keep their overall performance about on par [warcraft 3 style]".

Personally, I don't mind either way, as long as the game is still fun to play.

ostrupen commander and problem solved here

As I said if Ost gets 5 man squads they will have to give away their faction specific strengths like tech free nades weapon upgrades very good T0 mg, op mortar etc.

Ost isnt even underpowered in current patch anyways. So what "balance" are you talking about?

I am talking about the fact that 4 man squads are shit and this should be fixed while the game is still getting balanced.

And I don't see your problem with 3 faction specific "strengths" to 1 badly Army design problem.

I mean the squads will need to get rebalanced, yes, but what else?

Since going by your logic, the Brits need to give up something as well since they have T0 MGs, tanks and whatever else.

Actually, all of the current Armies need to give something up because they have something, like for example the USF got the mortar and the OKW got the Panzer IV by default, what did they give up for that exactly? Besides the Sturmtiger for the OKW since the Panzer IV basically replaced it.

And you wanna know why those changes were made? Because both Armies were badly fucking designed, something which I've been repeating forever now.

I wouldn't mind a 5 man squad if they got a performance nerf to account for the extra man.

Might have to adjust allied snipers and such however to account for the larger standard squad size - much like what we have for the ost-.

It doesn't matter anymore at this point. It will never happen.

To those arguing that USF squads lose their first model instantly too (which is simply not true, but whatever), do you not understand fractions?

Losing 1/5 of your DPS versus 1/4 of your DPS... which is greater?

Also, the HMG had a big, fat "2" in its tooltip while it was on the ground. My 3-man Pioneer squad went to recrew it. All three Pioneers crewed it and the Pioneer squad got wiped.

That's not a balance issue in itself, as it's just incorrect tooltip display, but there are LOTS of balance issues revolving around four-man squads and recrewing, not to mention other indirectly affected things, such as weapon slots and the like (i.e. five or six man squads being able to hold multiple powerful weapons simultaneously while suicidal four-man squads can only ever have one, even though that's the exact opposite of what would be balanced).

There is literally no advantage and nothing but disadvantages to four-man squads in every single aspect of the game.

Maybe, just maybe, if the four-man squads did INSANE damage to the point where allowing them to fire at one of your units at long or medium range for five seconds resulted in your unit being wiped, that would be properly threatening in the same way Allied units threaten and constantly wipe four-man squads by closing in on them while taking fire.

But no, clearly, according to Relic, Axis units aren't allowed to be threatening, so we have Pioneers that literally deal no damage, Grenadiers that can do absolutely nothing unless they're flawlessly in green cover every single engagement throughout the entire match, Volksgrenadiers that deal no damage to anyone with their base rifles, and Ostheer in general not being able to recrew anything and thus never posing a threat to squads that drop setup weapons or upgrades. GG.