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russian armor

OKW infantry anti-tank is not sufficient

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25 Feb 2018, 09:53 AM
#81
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Feb 2018, 09:18 AMKatitof

....
Initially OKW armor had same cost as ost, but that was changed when their eco was changed, the changes did not happen patch to patch, but over time and they add up to +25 fuel for respective vehicles.
...

Yet another nice theory only the ostheer PzIV and OKW PzIV never had the same price.

Osther PzIV was 350/125 and now 350/120

OKW PzIV was 360/135 and then 360/150 and now 380/140


25 Feb 2018, 12:39 PM
#82
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

lol okw pays 25 extra fuel for ther vet 5 system?, what a load of nonsense. the prices where increased because when OKW got full resource, their tanks where hitting the field too early nothing more. Vipper u should know katitof likes talking from his bak side 99.99% of the time.

On topic, yes OKW hand held at is not sufficient and @exile who said that its by faction design that OKW is suppose to be like this? you? who r u? haven't heard anyone from relic or modders to support ur claim.

However, i think by placing the jadpanzer in battle group and swapped with IR halftrack would help i guess
25 Feb 2018, 22:57 PM
#83
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Feb 2018, 09:53 AMVipper

Yet another nice theory only the ostheer PzIV and OKW PzIV never had the same price.

Osther PzIV was 350/125 and now 350/120

OKW PzIV was 360/135 and then 360/150 and now 380/140




Thats because the okw and ost p4 are not the same. One spawns with 234 armour the other only 180. The panthers used to be the same price iirc (command panther too for reasons unknown)

Okw vehicles are super durable, that warrants and extra cost. The only issue is that allied infantry stomps so much that allied medium armour isnt as necessary as axis mediums meaning the allies can sink their fuel into TDs allowing them to counter the armour advantage the axis need to tip the infantry fights.
26 Feb 2018, 05:51 AM
#84
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Thats because the okw and ost p4 are not the same. One spawns with 234 armour the other only 180. The panthers used to be the same price iirc (command panther too for reasons unknown)

Okw vehicles are super durable, that warrants and extra cost. The only issue is that allied infantry stomps so much that allied medium armour isnt as necessary as axis mediums meaning the allies can sink their fuel into TDs allowing them to counter the armour advantage the axis need to tip the infantry fights.


They used to be exactly the same, bar the vet bonuses.
Armor skirts used to be a muni upgrade. It started to change with revamps.

Snippy snowflake there knows perfectly well what I'm saying, but likes numbers more then actual gameplay to the point of focusing on numbers alone without any context.
26 Feb 2018, 07:10 AM
#85
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Overpriced stug :O come on, jp4 is the best non doc AT in the game. Plus it costs roughly as much as a SU85, which is much worse than jp4. The only runner up to the jp4 is the jackson, but it is more expensive and still not as good.


in which patch do you play??

Jackson is the best nondoc TD. Everybody know it.

Jp4 is slow, has no turrent, low penetration, cant see/spot anything alone (feels like a 30 grad view to front ), is easy flankable and has low accu while moving/ turning
26 Feb 2018, 07:16 AM
#86
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243




you are selectively picking your own words and ignoring the rest.

and Speaking of FF, they have a good reason for their high accuracy. They have one of the worst DPS in the game. 200 damage with a 8s reload is pretty bad. Their mobility is pretty bad as well.



FF:


+good accuracy
+good penetration
+tulip rockets
-bad mobility
-bad DPS
-tulip rocket require a individual munition upgrade and munition cost per use. It's very munition hungry
-bigger than normal size (23)


and actually let's look at FF vs jp4 accuracy at 45m

FF size: 23
jp4: 17

FF accu at 45: .05 (x1.10) = .055
Jp4 accu at 45: .045

FF vs jp4 = .055 * 17 = .935 (.85 if no tank commander upgrade)
Jp4 vs FF= .045 * 23 = 1.035

even with the tank commander, the Jp4 have an accuracy advantage over the Firefly. it is statistically impossible for a stationary jp4 to miss the firefly at 45m.


to bad that in real life the jp4 must moving/ turning to aim most targets...and than its gets worst! it often cant hit anythink while moving the chassie to aim a flanking unit...it is apain to view it hit the ground 2-3 in a row
26 Feb 2018, 07:21 AM
#87
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



that's called faction design


what a joke. Funny.

SO the gamedesign from OKW to lack AT? WTF?


The moment you realize OKW has lack of AT and AI.

Volk blobs where in game..you know mthat? in this time there was no lack of at for okw!

But...volks blobs where op. TILL NOW OKW lack AT. Maybe you should get a little leason in coh2 history.





26 Feb 2018, 08:49 AM
#88
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Feb 2018, 08:47 AMKatitof

Because
1) It was expensive already.
2) Was never spammed heavily because MUH PUNTOR


Only person i ever saw spamming panthers in 2's was you :romeoMug:



that's called faction design


So was okw truck system at release, shall we go back to that?


26 Feb 2018, 09:44 AM
#89
avatar of SweetrollNearTheDoor

Posts: 170 | Subs: 1

Original faction design :romeoHype:

So thats why USF doesn't have a non-doctrinal mortar and instead has to use smoke and flank to deal with support weapons and whatnot.

USF didn't have any heavy tanks at launch because it was designed around mobile light and medium armor.

I also like the design of having to flank axis armor instead of going toe to toe against it with glass cannon TDs.

Original faction design matters!





26 Feb 2018, 09:47 AM
#90
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 05:51 AMKatitof


They used to be exactly the same, bar the vet bonuses.
Armor skirts used to be a muni upgrade. It started to change with revamps.


Another nice but completely wrong theory from Katitof.

The 2 PzIV where never "exactly the same"

Let me give you list of differences:
Apart from different prices, one being doctrinal and coming into pairs, one having mu upgrade for skirt, different tech cost once they become build-able,...

Pop: OKW 14 Osth 12
Speed : OKW 6 Osth 6.3
Acc. : OKW 2 Osth 2.1
Dece. : OKW 4.1 Osth 4.3
Rota.: OKW 30 Osth 32
R. Armor: OKW 80 Osth 90
XP value: OKW 1.620 Osth 1.950

Different vet 1 abilities, different vet 2 and vet 3 bonuses.

26 Feb 2018, 10:08 AM
#91
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220



in which patch do ypou play??

Jackson is the best nondoc TD. Everybody know it.

Jp4 is slow, has no turrent, low penetration, cant see/spot anything alone (feels like a 30 grad view to front ), is easy flankable and has low accu while moving/ turning

jackson is not that good like jp4? wtf?? are you really this dumb? it cost not that much more but its superior to any other nondoc td

If u got problem make pather if u want tank destroyer with turret lol
Okw has so many late game option and usf just one so it must be good whats wrong with that ? I just think u desperately want attention. Jagpanzer is really strong and im sure its better than jackson íf u defence
26 Feb 2018, 10:18 AM
#92
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


If u got problem make pather if u want tank destroyer with turret lol
Okw has so many late game option and usf just one so it must be good whats wrong with that ? I just think u desperately want attention. Jagpanzer is really strong and im sure its better than jackson íf u defence


how could a jpz4 better than jackson in defense? a jackson need only sight on a german armor and can now kit them. because they outrange them with huge range, huge view range and high mobility.

all of that the jpz4 have not. (except same shot range)..it has only higher armor and a lil bit faster reload.

a jpz4 on defence is helpless without support..it cant see anything alone, is slow, has bad accur while moving and is easy flankable...how could it be better? maybe in hose where no tanks can flank you...but most maps have very good flankable positons.



26 Feb 2018, 10:36 AM
#93
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587


Jagpanzer is really strong and im sure its better than jackson íf u defence


You wouldn't know, you never used the jp4.
26 Feb 2018, 10:40 AM
#94
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243


If u got problem make pather if u want tank destroyer with turret lol
Okw has so many late game option and usf just one so it must be good whats wrong with that ? I just think u desperately want attention. Jagpanzer is really strong and im sure its better than jackson íf u defence


so you would choose a jpz4 to defend itself over a jackson vs a medium or any other armor? dumb decision.
26 Feb 2018, 11:19 AM
#95
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220



so you would choose a jpz4 to defend itself over a jackson vs a medium or any other armor? dumb decision.

Dont think so jagpanzes camo is perfect for ambush and defence with some suport jagpanzer is great and even jackson is so strong for u thats ok because its only late game usf tank i know its dumb because he counter evrything medium or heavy but this is just stupid design
Would be ok for me to nerf jackson and add non doc e8
26 Feb 2018, 12:42 PM
#96
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 08:49 AMzarok47


Only person i ever saw spamming panthers in 2's was you :romeoMug:


I use them for AI :sibHyena:
(no, seriously, 20-30+ ai kills is norm on them)
Plus, that is my exact point, why get JP4 when panther was vastly superior and barely more expensive back then?
26 Feb 2018, 12:46 PM
#97
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 12:42 PMKatitof
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 08:49 AMzarok47


Only person i ever saw spamming panthers in 2's was you :romeoMug:


I use them for AI :sibHyena:
(no, seriously, 20-30+ ai kills is norm on them)
Plus, that is my exact point, why get JP4 when panther was vastly superior and barely more expensive back then?


it was good befor the last big nerf...and you build it to have a td on the same range like your opponent. and it shot much faster than the old panther..
26 Feb 2018, 16:01 PM
#98
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 12:42 PMKatitof
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 08:49 AMzarok47


Only person i ever saw spamming panthers in 2's was you :romeoMug:


I use them for AI :sibHyena:
(no, seriously, 20-30+ ai kills is norm on them)
Plus, that is my exact point, why get JP4 when panther was vastly superior and barely more expensive back then?


For the predator cammo and disappearance from reality.
26 Feb 2018, 16:48 PM
#99
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 12:42 PMKatitof
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 08:49 AMzarok47


Only person i ever saw spamming panthers in 2's was you :romeoMug:


I use them for AI :sibHyena:
(no, seriously, 20-30+ ai kills is norm on them)
Plus, that is my exact point, why get JP4 when panther was vastly superior and barely more expensive back then?


For the predator cammo and disappearance from reality.


Quite positive Warp Shift ability was removed from it some time ago.
But I'm not going to bet a hand on that.
26 Feb 2018, 18:02 PM
#100
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



in which patch do ypou play??

Jackson is the best nondoc TD. Everybody know it.

Jp4 is slow, has no turrent, low penetration, cant see/spot anything alone (feels like a 30 grad view to front ), is easy flankable and has low accu while moving/ turning


Try both, especially with vet, and then come back. Although it is true that at vet0 jackson is better vs heavies, while being weaker vs mediums than jp4. As for flanking and sight I will take this one as a bad joke - nobody bases the ballance around unsupported TDs.
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