Fighting ISU as OKW

Hi all,

after the last patch i find it extremly difficult to fight the ISU as OKW. Shots from the Jagdpanzer miss or bounce 90% of time and even when hit, it does only minor damage. Panther seems to hit more often, but same here, most of the shots bounce or do less damage. Flanking would be the solution, but every decent player has guards or an other tank to secure the isu. And flanking with the expensiv OKW-Tanks is much more risky, as to rush with some cheap allis tanks as they would do, to kill a Jagdtiger. For example you can rush a Jagdtiger with infantry, but you will suffer heavy, if you do the same in case of an ISU.

So I would welcome any advise here, beside to take a Jagdtiger, cause I think it shouldn`t be the only solution to have a doctrine in loadout, only because someone may pic ISU.

Or maybe there is a need for a rebalance? Generally spoken, at the moment my feeling about Axis is, that you have to invest much more in micro and tactic to keep track with the allies as vice versa.

I refer here on teamgames, cause in 1vs1 flanking could be the solution.

Im afraid it's the same as in 2014: JT or bust.

You need long range to fight long range.

Jagdtiger is the go- to solution. Fight fire with better fire.

However, frequently using smoke to deny LOS to the ISU is also a decent(and nondoctrinal) solution, forcing the ISU to either cease firing for a while or move out of the smoke, closer to your AT weapons.

Jagdtiger is the go- to solution. Fight fire with better fire.

However, frequently using smoke to deny LOS to the ISU is also a decent(and nondoctrinal) solution, forcing the ISU to either cease firing for a while or move out of the smoke, closer to your AT weapons.

Besides the fact it can attack-ground to ignore smoke or fire at something not blocked by it?

Besides the fact it can attack-ground to ignore smoke or fire at something not blocked by it?

Eh. it works for me, though that is more because i tend to be in the low- level pool.

Jagdtiger is the go- to solution. Fight fire with better fire.

However, frequently using smoke to deny LOS to the ISU is also a decent(and nondoctrinal) solution, forcing the ISU to either cease firing for a while or move out of the smoke, closer to your AT weapons.

Except that the ISU offers far greater utility than both the Elefant and JT. Further the Elefant and JT are even weaker now than they used to be.

The ISU can just switch over to fight infantry and tanks quite reliably. While with the Elefant and JT you are stuck to fight off tanks. And even that doesn't work good any more since mediums can swarm you easily, even with support.

Any competent player will just switch to infantry and/or safe for a medium tank horde and the German super heavies are useless. Thus you are stuck with a quarter of your pop being useless. Meanwhile the ISU can switch over to bombard infanty.

This leaves you with the Panther and JP IV as OKW which in my opinion have also been a bit overnerfed. Ostheer at least has the StuG remaining.

Ostheer at least has a decent at-gun. My rakketen couldn't even penetrate the isu! In one case, we were confronted by an isu, secured by guards and an SU-85. At that point, there was no way to get that victory point. So the rest of enemies team could focus on the other one - gg!

Did I really live to see a ISU-152 OP thread again? Like really, the only OP thing about it after previous nerf is the red soviet star on the armour. What is next, M-42 light AT gun OP thread?

Did I really live to see a ISU-152 OP thread again? Like really, the only OP thing about it after previous nerf is the red soviet star on the armour. What is next, M-42 light AT gun OP thread?

Actually ISU-152 received buffs this patch while the majority of axis AT weapons received nerfs.

Actually ISU-152 received buffs this patch while the majority of axis AT weapons received nerfs.

If by majority you mean the 2 doctrinal hard counters: ele and jt, then yeah. But both okw and ost have some great non-doc soft counters like jp4, stug, panthers and so on that have not been changed or have been slightly buffed.

Also the buffs to ISU are nothing in comparison with how hard it got nerfed in previous patches.

If by majority you mean the 2 doctrinal hard counters: ele and jt, then yeah. But both okw and ost have some great non-doc soft counters like jp4, stug, panthers and so on that have not been changed or have been slightly buffed.

Also the buffs to ISU are nothing in comparison with how hard it got nerfed in previous patches.

Read the patch notes, 90% of Axis ATG asset received a nerf of some sort.

The reason it was nerfed it previous patchs was that the units was broken so that does not say much.

Use JT man. Doc unit vs doc unit.
How i like axis lovers posts, every soviet unit are better then axis, this vanilla storys OpieOP.

That has nothing to do with "axis lovers posts". Proof it first and then complain! JT and Elefant are easy killed by moving in with at-infantry - no need for special doc. My problem with ISU is, that it is too good against both, infantry and tanks!

That has nothing to do with "axis lovers posts". Proof it first and then complain! JT and Elefant are easy killed by moving in with at-infantry - no need for special doc. My problem with ISU is, that it is too good against both, infantry and tanks!

Tell me more about this AT-infantry which can easily kill a JT.

Do not forget that JT now has cheap HE barrage that can also threaten infantry and anti-tank guns

That has nothing to do with "axis lovers posts". Proof it first and then complain! JT and Elefant are easy killed by moving in with at-infantry - no need for special doc. My problem with ISU is, that it is too good against both, infantry and tanks!

Axis lovers was not adressed to you, more about Butcher
If you are interesed about balance, why i dont see post from you when JT shoot throw buildings and another things ? Why no post about KT + JT ? Why i dont see post about dive bomb ? OKW problmes ? Cons problmes ?
Man, ISU almost was dead unit if there was ele or JT (and its almost was every time from 2v2 and higher game mods, only in 1v1 ISU can make somthing). Go ISU when opponents in 90 % go JT/ele its waste of fuel adn MP. Did you forget how was "bad" JT abilitys before patch ? where you can wipe AT guns and HMG from fog of war, waht range have JT compared to ISU ?
Rules change, time to adapt.

That has nothing to do with "axis lovers posts". Proof it first and then complain! JT and Elefant are easy killed by moving in with at-infantry - no need for special doc. My problem with ISU is, that it is too good against both, infantry and tanks!

Then maybe you should use some combined arms to charge with the raketen from the front, Panther/P4 from the side and volks/sturms from another side. Guards will take a long time to kill the tank. OKW has two good air-loiters now, you can also use a shorter effect barrage to hit or force ISU out of the position. Commands Panther is useful against a heavy tank because it can flank and mark it for a lot of bonus damage.

The ammo switching on ISU is slow, the rate of fire is slow. Despite having the capabilities to fight both, it is not efficient at either. The movement/rotation rates are slow, it is highly vulnerable to flanks: Panther, P4, even Puma.

Your complaint about PJ4 missing/bouncing is a fantasy. The penetration chance is around 55%. You have close to double the reload speed, you will get free 4 shots if his rounds are wrong.

Your complaint about PJ4 missing/bouncing is a fantasy. The penetration chance is around 55%. You have close to double the reload speed, you will get free 4 shots if his rounds are wrong.

1) JP Penetration is 50% at max range

2) ISU-152 can does not have to change munition before engaging armor, the HE does have deflection damage and should be fired before switching. One can actually fire HE, then fire concrete piercing and then switch AP if needed.

3) Reload on its own is misleading if the units in question do different damage per shot.

Rather than fighting over how OP the unit is, lets give the guy what he asked for, some tactics:

The ISU actually misses a lot when it's forced to rotate or move at all. Raktens are not great, that's obvious but you could set a decent ambush depending how he's using his ISU. Roll up 2-3 Rakens, keep them hidden, turn off auto-fire and try and lay a trap for him.

2 Jagpanzers may seem like a hardcore investment in anti-tank capabilities but it's not the worst thing to do. the JP4 is hard to hit, it has a smaller size than most mediums, has good range, and if you get it to Vet1 you might be able to harass and peak the shit out of him.

The doctrine that has the Sturmtiger in it is half decent as well, loading in the big HEAT shells certainly should fix your bouncing problem and if I'm not mistaken it also adds a bit of extra wham to the damage.

As much as people declare that the King Tiger is a lost cause, it can still soak, and do some pretty good damage. If he's saved up 230 fuel and 600 manpower for a ISU, another option has been you need to apply more pressure.

This is something so overlooked, but was constantly talked about in the earlier days of Coh2. If your opponent has been able to somehow keep good map control, and save such and excess of resources... the question is were you aggressive enough? Did you poke enough? Make him feel like he can't save, keep him on his back feet...


When I play with the ISU, you're correct in that I only bring it out if I can support it properly.. honestly with Su76's to barrage AT guns or kill tanks who try to go for it. I keep the ISU on infantry-wipe-mode because I need it, by that point I'm lacking in ways to kill infantry so that's the ISU's job.

But the whole time, my opponent could of pressured me.. they could of sniped my su76s w/ a Jagpanzer, sneaked in come AT, fausted.. I'm not going to bring out a lone heavy tank because an unsupported ISU is going to get raped. So honestly, that's the crux.. and I know a lot of people dislike the idea of being a lot more aggressive but keeping someone scared is worth it. Don't let them get comfortable, keep pushing, make them make mistakes.

In my early days, I used to fight until I had what I wanted. Then back off.. then find out the enemy built up all this shit I couldn't deal with.. rock paper scissors.

Thx to Kharn - at least an constructive post. Well, maybe its my personal view, but rakketen is risky, because of lots of bouncing shots and same I see with JP4, despite the "50% at max range" hitchance. I don't see that, maybe because you have to move in with JP4 somehow to follow the ISU.

I will test the solution with HEAT shells, don't know if it gives enough punch.