AT weapons for OKW

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2017, 23:31 PMStorm Elite

This and many other AT gun issues would be solved if AT guns worked like they do in Dawn of War II: each shot snares the enemy armor temporarily (shorter than Panzerfaust snare).

As long as tanks can hard counter their own hard counter, there's generally very little reason to use AT guns, let alone the OKW AT gun that should be able to ambush, snare, and thus truly threaten enemy armor at closer ranges than other AT guns but at the cost of lower damage per shot (which is already present, if I'm not mistaken, or at least present in the form of worse accuracy and performance in general).

Jump back to quoted post27 Dec 2017, 21:32 PMMr.Smith

Factions can afford to have gimmicky stuff for flavor, as long as basic utility is covered for elsewhere by other, reliable units.

When OKW had schreckblobs, they had the AT defence department covered. Raketens had the niche of being good at ambushing stuff, but were completely crap at anything else pre-buffs; they had a normal arc of fire and very crappy aiming times.

When schreckblobs got replaced by the current Volks, the raketenwerfer suddenly had to fill the void of covering for the entire AT department. The mistake so far is trying to rely on release-time raketens to fill a normal AT role. The resulting buffs to the Raketenwerfer made the thing despicable by everyone:
- People hate using that thing, because it's so completely unreliable. The squad formation (which we cannot further improve) and short range means it can get one-shot wiped by the tanks it is supposed to defend against (because its role is no longer ambushing stuff)
- People also hate having to fight vs raketens because stealth counters are generally absent in CoH2 (the only things that can detect stealth, allied-side are M3, M20 and UC; and guess what Raketenwerfer should protect OKW against...), and Raketenwerfer also has retreat which makes infantry flanks futile

Instead, OKW needs a normal AT gun that doesn't get wiped by tanks, but can be threatened by infantry to cover the AT department. If preserving raketenwerfer design is desirable for whatever reason, there are options to do so:
- Completely replace raketen with pak40 non-doc, and move raketenwerfer to, e.g., overwatch
- replicate current raketen design to soviet m42 gun (Soviets have a normal AT gun that gets the job done, and m42 could finally find a niche as a gimmick gun)
- Reconstruct raketen as a pak40 clone (i.e., worse reload, worse arc, no retreat, but 60 range and better accuracy) and only carry over the safe gimmicks (e.g., Soviet AT gun-grade camouflage and garrisoning). However, retreat needs to go.

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2017, 09:38 AMTiger Baron

I have a stupid question. Why is the raketen's accuracy bugged in the first place?

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2017, 09:38 AMTiger Baron

I have a stupid question. Why is the raketen's accuracy bugged in the first place?

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2017, 11:31 AMinsaneHoshi

Also IIRC its max range accuracy was the same as other at guns max range. This means that other 60 range (their max) guns would have a slightly higher accuracy at range 50 than rakkens would have at range 50.

Also it has 0 bonuses to accuracy in its vet (unlike 6lbr and 51mm) which made it more painful to use.

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2017, 10:05 AMferwiner

I think okw is already way too similar to ostheer. Giving them pak40 like gun goes a long way into breaking uniqueness of factions even more. Honestly, I would definitely rather come back to shreck blobs with no snare than give okw another ostheer copy paste. There is no point in ballance if all that differs factions is their name.

Jump back to quoted post29 Dec 2017, 22:22 PMMr.Smith

You can always remake the raketenwerfer into something completely unique that actually complements the faction.

If you completely remove raketen from okw, you have a faction that has no chance toretaliate against early light vehicles. You also get a faction that, if at any point, manages to fall behind on tank trades gets overrun.

None of the above are covered adequately by the current raketen. Instead the unit is optimised for cheesy artillery unit kills, as well as mocing and retreating in blobs when critical mass has been reached. For everything else, it's unreliable, and 1 raketen is functionally equivalent to 0 raketens.

So, if the raketen is meant to be unique for a reason, I fail to see the reason have any relevance post-schreckblob removal.

Jump back to quoted post28 Dec 2017, 00:56 AMkitekaze

And nobody will see raketen ever since. It's just Soviet ver2, instead of Zig and M42 we have pak and raketen.



Honestly, have you ever encountered m42? Below panzer, it work barely. And anything above that, it's useless. I'd rather having current raketen than another m42 clone



Or the coh1 pak38 clone. The gun does not have much damage or penetration, and relies to its first (three) shots out of ambush.
And while balancing gun, please remove camouflage while moving, I really hate stealth capping from raketen.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2018, 14:40 PMullumulu

means u need 3 raketen to destroy a tank ...this means a loot of micro, a loot of MP (and MP bleed) and high risk to lose them--because of one shootet by tanks

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2018, 14:58 PMVipper

Oddly enough the RW become more susceptible to fire with the last patch, because their TS was increased to 1.

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2018, 15:06 PMullumulu

because they buffed it arc of fire and fire through teran..which made it to the good at /ironyoff

Jump back to quoted post8 Jan 2018, 15:15 PMVipper

Actually from patch notes:
Raketenwerfer
The Raketenwerfer has been adjusted to be less potent at veterancy, but more reliable and more difficult to lockdown by HMGs.
Projectile no longer collides with terrain

Can no longer be suppressed
Veterancy 4 and 5 sight and range bonuses removed
Veterancy 1 camouflaged speed bonus from 100% to 25%

(and the target size/DPS chance under "BUG FIXES & QUALITY OF LIFE")