December Balance Preview

Oh well, apparently green cover IS provided.

#surprised

If there's a bug that make green cover inconsistent it should be fixed as well as raketen cover introduced.

"@Smith do you think this is possible to fix so it works as it should (operators getting cover all the time)?"

Wow turned out to be an intended feature that needs instant fix.

It is also worth pointing out that atgs, and other team weapons, are objects in their own right with health and armor values. Scatter shots have a chance to "miss" but still hit a target. When the team weapon itself absorbs the shot, the crew (may) not take any damage. This depends on aoe and such, but it is entirely independent of cover.

Also, especially concerning the raketenwerfer, when the team weapon is killed, and raketens are easy to kill, the whole crew dies. It is good to note when a raketens gets wiped if there's still a gun leftover.

Also, especially concerning the raketenwerfer, when the team weapon is killed, and raketens are easy to kill, the whole crew dies. It is good to note when a raketens gets wiped if there's still a gun leftover.

The crew does not die when the health of the weapon is depleted. This was fixed quite a while back. What can happen is that the gun's health has already been depleted when the crew dies, which will then leave no gun behind.

The raketen has 350 hp and 70 armour just like a zis or pak40. It's target size is however 10 while the zis' and pak40's is 20. It is therefore harder to hit and consequently harder to "kill" (get its health to zero) (with regard to the gun, not the crew).

I wonder if how USF would function if RE were given a upgrade to allow to use their Rifle grenade anywhere as if they were in a FP. Would counter garrison and give them a unique place in USF roster by providing mobile fire support and allow the USF mortar to remain more of a smoke dispenser. RE rifle grenade isn't exactly broken either due its time to detonate and lower damage. It also give them more utility as they can move up behind Rifles to assist with clearing buildings and cover positions. Course the munitions cost of such a upgrade would have to toyed around.

Dang elchino7 thanks for the testing. That's really odd.

Oh well, apparently green cover IS provided.

#surprised

If there's a bug that make green cover inconsistent it should be fixed as well as raketen cover introduced.

"@Smith do you think this is possible to fix so it works as it should (operators getting cover all the time)?"

Wow turned out to be an intended feature that needs instant fix.

I think you need to work on your writing analysis skills. It's also hilarious how you doubt elchino7 (who by the way did provide substantiated information and was backed up by multiple people) right up until his information supported your argument, at which point you immediately took it as gospel.

Further than that, you didn't even understand that it hardly ever provides cover properly, and only does so in extremely arbitrary and odd circumstances.

I wonder if how USF would function if RE were given a upgrade to allow to use their Rifle grenade anywhere as if they were in a FP. Would counter garrison and give them a unique place in USF roster by providing mobile fire support and allow the USF mortar to remain more of a smoke dispenser. RE rifle grenade isn't exactly broken either due its time to detonate and lower damage. It also give them more utility as they can move up behind Rifles to assist with clearing buildings and cover positions. Course the munitions cost of such a upgrade would have to toyed around.

IIRC smith added that in the unofficial revamp that resulted from relic's abandonment of the last patch that was supposed to come out (fall balance patch I think?) if by "use their rifle grenade anywhere" you mean like it fires automatically and is not a muni based ability like the grenadiers'. I never actually got a chance to test it, but I think it'd be pretty cool and could be a well balanced solution to usf's chronic lack of decent (nay, functional) early-mid game non-doctrinal garrison clearance.

It should probably lock out at the very least one weapon slot though, and/or be mutually exclusive with sweepers. REs with a 1919 and automatic rifle nades could be a bit op. Just a bit.

IIRC smith added that in the unofficial revamp that resulted from relic's abandonment of the last patch that was supposed to come out (fall balance patch I think?) if by "use their rifle grenade anywhere" you mean like it fires automatically and is not a muni based ability like the grenadiers'. I never actually got a chance to test it, but I think it'd be pretty cool and could be a well balanced solution to usf's chronic lack of decent (nay, functional) early-mid game non-doctrinal garrison clearance.

It should probably lock out at the very least one weapon slot though, and/or be mutually exclusive with sweepers. REs with a 1919 and automatic rifle nades could be a bit op. Just a bit.

I'd be fine with as be fair for it to take up a weapon slot. Should've added that in my post. Yes use it anywhere anytime as it's relatively easy to dodge given the time it travels and due to it having a timer. It could be a skill shot with a small cool down time that could reduce with veterancy or just be auto fire with attack ground. It'd counter MGs and with the garrison changes in DPB squads in garrisons. If used on a squad in cover they could just move back then move forward to dodge it.

I'd be fine with as be fair for it to take up a weapon slot. Should've added that in my post. Yes use it anywhere anytime as it's relatively easy to dodge given the time it travels and due to it having a timer. It could be a skill shot with a small cool down time that could reduce with veterancy or just be auto fire with attack ground. It'd counter MGs and with the garrison changes in DPB squads in garrisons. If used on a squad in cover they could just move back then move forward to dodge it.

I would absolutely love that. It'd give REs an actual role besides being bazooka toters/mine sweepers, fix the issue of garrison clearing, and make it so the player has to choose how to delegate their RE's roles (and possibly build more) all at the same time.

Edit: I'm curious as to how you would want infantry smoke to work (as in only on rifles, only on officers, only on REs, officers and REs, etc.) if REs were given smoke, because I'm not sure how I'd approach that, but I think my vote is probably with sticking to having it on rifles.

I would absolutely love that. It'd give REs an actual role besides being bazooka toters/mine sweepers, fix the issue of garrison clearing, and make it so the player has to choose how to delegate their RE's roles (and possibly build more) all at the same time.

Edit: I'm curious as to how you would want infantry smoke to work (as in only on rifles, only on officers, only on REs, officers and REs, etc.) if REs were given smoke, because I'm not sure how I'd approach that, but I think my vote is probably with sticking to having it on rifles.

It might make a dual rifle and duel RE build seen often in maps with important houses to take or destroy.

Oh well, apparently green cover IS provided.

#surprised

If there's a bug that make green cover inconsistent it should be fixed as well as raketen cover introduced.

"@Smith do you think this is possible to fix so it works as it should (operators getting cover all the time)?"

Wow turned out to be an intended feature that needs instant fix.

My point was: you are asking for a feature that doesn't work 95% of the time as a justification of the "imbalance" on AT gun power levels. My previous post just told you that it didn't work. My 2nd post basically tells you WHY it doesn't work.

You are asking for Rak to provide green cover. My point is, compared to the size and HITBOX on other AT guns, how is this supposed to cover anything at all:

Show Spoiler

Even if you add green cover, the pivot point from which cover would apply would be small or you would had to increase the hitbox of it adding invisible walls.

This is a great buff/QoL:

That, plus the weapon-team formation changes in DBP that make the crew ignore craters when setting up their formations.

In case it might help finding the bug, i have a suspicious that the problem comes from the loader on the AT gun crew (not the one "aiming"). It might had been my perception, but it seems that the model on the left tend to be easier to protect.

Rifle Grenades would be amazing! In garrison heavy maps OKW and USF just end up tickling each other inside of buildings up until OKW gets flame grenades. Rifle Grenades would be pretty handy to have but I feel like it should take up maybe both weapon slots since it's going to be a pretty powerful investment? (Maybe that's just me but Rifle Nades and a Browning or Rifle Nades with a Zook sounds too good.)

Where are the 1.51 notes?

Where are the 1.51 notes?

This?

Dang elchino7 thanks for the testing. That's really odd.


I think you need to work on your writing analysis skills. It's also hilarious how you doubt elchino7 (who by the way did provide substantiated information and was backed up by multiple people) right up until his information supported your argument, at which point you immediately took it as gospel.

Further than that, you didn't even understand that it hardly ever provides cover properly, and only does so in extremely arbitrary and odd circumstances.

Ofc talking about understanding...
If you:
1) read properly my post
2) weren't too committed in bringing on the asshole behaviour

You would have realized that THERE IS green cover because THEY ARE MEANT to provode gree cover to begin with.
The cover not properly applying is a mere bug to fix.

My point: green cover applies to crew
That is pretty much true, it's meant and it actually do.
Not working properly in some conditions and instead properly functioning only on rare occasions doesn't mean my point is wrong.
It's not even ALWAYS rare occasions, zis and pak have whole green cover wall on one side and center.

Ps: noone backed up elchino but elchino itself with proper testing, kudos for actually doing in depth testing.

My point was: you are asking for a feature that doesn't work 95% of the time as a justification of the "imbalance" on AT gun power levels. My previous post just told you that it didn't work. My 2nd post basically tells you WHY it doesn't work.

You are asking for Rak to provide green cover. My point is, compared to the size and HITBOX on other AT guns, how is this supposed to cover anything at all:

Show Spoiler

Even if you add green cover, the pivot point from which cover would apply would be small or you would had to increase the hitbox of it adding invisible walls.

This is a great buff/QoL:


In case it might help finding the bug, i have a suspicious that the problem comes from the loader on the AT gun crew (not the one "aiming"). It might had been my perception, but it seems that the model on the left tend to be easier to protect.

That's not an issues as long as green cover properly and RELIABLY cover operators, it would be actually a durability buff, an immortal green cover stopping shells instead of letting those hit in the middle of crew formation.
The green cover modifier should be enough.

Indeed.
It's probably due to the models not being behind the shield for most part of the body, considering pak and zis have better cover compared to smaller shields atg.

Anyway I HIGHLY agree with you, it should be fixed and standardized.

Observations on 1.6

Mechanized notes-
No handbrake m5(it doesn't do anything)
No range indicator wc51 damage ability
No withdraw and Refit, commander given the vehicle capture ability instead, not mentioned in notes

Recon support
greyhound ui 3 cps, comes at 3 cps, notes said 4
greyhound main gun bullets disapeared vs decrewed pak several times
M8 canister costs 40, patch notes say increase should be changed to decrease form 50-40
AT Paratroopers do not have hold fire in Recon support
Major Fake barrage has differnt hotkey and location to Recon support Fake Barrage(not a big deal but you guys have been making a point with hotkeys)
Recon Paras seem to build mines faster than Assault engineers, squad sizes related?

OKW
Kubel handbrake not working like m5

Fuerstorm
Nobody has salvage anymore lol

The two OKW doctrines seem like they are a bit weak still, but ill put more subjective stuff in the commander thread

1.6 is out; notes here (scroll to the bottom)
Commanders part 3 is out notes here (scroll to the bottom)

Over all, it looks pretty good. There area few points I really don't agree with (or don't understand).

1.6 patch
Pak Howitzer population cap from 11 to 9
There are no other changes to this unit; it's pretty good already, so getting a straight buff seems strange

Universal Carrier WASP cost reduced from 90MU to 70MU
This unit is already pretty great, and the upgrades come very early, making it hard for OST to counter it. This will just make the flamer come even earlier (and there's no changes to it), making OST even harder to play vs. brits. I would be fine with this change if the carrier was made either weaker (lower HP/armor) or the wasp had less range (match the infantry flamer range).


Commanders part 3
M83 Cluster Mines The paradrop uses Green smoke to confuse the enemy
This would work if "green smoke but it's actually an offensive ability" was in the game already; instead it's inconsistent with every other ability in the game (nothing else does this) and will only confuse new players. It needs red smoke like every other offensive ability.

Opel Blitz Reinforce Truck costs 200 manpower and 25 fuel
25 fuel for a non-attacking, dock-locked transport/reinforce truck seems a bit much, especially if it has the same armor/HP as the resource variant (made of glass). Maybe 15 or 20 fuel?

Heavy Fortifications Only decrews when both models are lost. Can operate at 1 man
The entire problem with this unit was that it COULD be decrewed. Now instead of taking 1 sniper shot to take it out, it just takes two; or anything explosive, flaming, etc. Even with the other changes (which seem good), it still makes no sense to build it when it can be taken out so easily; it makes even less sense when compared to the bofors (which is non-doc), which can't be decrewed.

Heavy Fortifications Only decrews when both models are lost. Can operate at 1 man
The entire problem with this unit was that it COULD be decrewed. Now instead of taking 1 sniper shot to take it out, it just takes two; or anything explosive, flaming, etc. Even with the other changes (which seem good), it still makes no sense to build it when it can be taken out so easily; it makes even less sense when compared to the bofors (which is non-doc), which can't be decrewed.

I tried to use SU sniper to shoot the crew of flak emplacement. It seems the sniper missed all( 5 bullets)

I tried to use SU sniper to shoot the crew of flak emplacement. It seems the sniper missed all( 5 bullets)

You can't shoot the crew out with small-arms. The 20mm flak cannon itself has higher target priority.

WTF is with the refuel refit and 155mm replacement!?! Why replace abilities with WORSE abilities. Now it just feels bloated with manpower/fuel call-ins.

You can't shoot the crew out with small-arms. The 20mm flak cannon itself has higher target priority.

Interesting, I guess it's just been that long since I've even bothered building the flak.

But if it can't be decrewed by infantry, why have it be decrewable at all?