December Balance Preview

From my experience Panther is better than Comet against infantry because it has much better accuraccy and thus it snipes models much more often. When was the last time you saw Comet sniping a model ? It usually misses completely and only does sliver of its maximal damage because of aoe.

Panther on the other hand has much better accuraccy, snipes models on regular basis and thus his "poor" area of effect damage isnt problem at all.

Another fact is that Panther outDPS Comet because of its superios 3 powerful HMGs.

If I had to chose between Comet and Panther as an AI tank I would chose Panther because it is much more consistent and thus reliable. Consistent DPS will bleed your enemy more than RNG cannon.


And I think we shouldnt even argue at all if Panther has better AT power than Comet. The best argument towards Panther is that it beats Comet in 1v1.


Both tanks cost the same amound of fuel, Ostheer Panther is even cheaper than Comet, yet Panther is better at both AT deparment and AI department. I dont see any reason why one should pick Comet over Panther.

Comet is only much more used because Brits dont have any special "keinschentke" tanks like is OKW Kingtiger or OST Tiger and Elephant. Axis players do not buy Panthers not because Panther is weak but because they have much better different tanks.

I think that not buffing Panther but nerfing Stug, JP4, Tiger, Kingtiger, Elephant and Jagtiger to make them more balanced towards allied armor would make Panther much more widely used than buffing it becuase Panther isnt UP, just other Axis tanks are OP.

And the early game argument doesnt apply anymore because OKW has, heads down, the best early game followed by other faction. Ostheer has much better early game than both WFA Allied factions (UKF and USF) becuase Ostheer has very strong sniper and 222 spam.

I don't see the Panther sniping models more often than the Comet, so either this is about perception, bias or something else, because I can't agree with this at all.

However I do agree with the consistency aspect of the Hull and Pintle MGs, which imo should be the way to go with all tanks and their respective AI capabilities. It just reduces heavy RNG spectrums and also mitigates the frequency of sudden wipes, caused by either unit clumping or other circumstances which are neither thought design wise, nor add a benefit to the overall game.

Comparing units in a vaccuum and saying a unit is better because another, just by comparing cost and 1v1 of the respective units is shallow and doesn't account for the complexity of the subject matter.

Which is also the reason why I value the heavy crush on the Panther so much, since it comes with all the other strengths on the Panther and OST simply doesn't have much else to offer if you want to crush dem pesky hedges. Only the Brummbar can do it (non doctinally) and it has it's own issues (specialized, expensive T4 etc. I wrote about that earlier), plus it is way less nimble than the Panther, so you get caught in bad situations more easily.

With the tech cost restructuring I would say the whole T4 situation will get a little bit better, but I surely wouldn't call it being in a good spot™ just based on that. Some serious playtetsing and feedback is necessary.

I think they are afraid of creating a tank that literally does everything. If say, the panther was really amazing at killing tanks right? But, it does some light anti infantry damage as well. If you get 2-3 panthers then the game is over. Nothing could stand up to that anymore. It's the same reason the comet got nerfed over and over again after release. Cuz the comet covered all bases.

2 panthers is 350 fuel and 3 panthers is approaching 525 fuel. Think about that level of fuel investment for a moment when considering their performance.

Aa far as the old comets, their main gun at the time would kill 1-2+ models per shot at maximum (sight) range. 2 comets could wipe an ostheer squad nearly everytime they saw one through FOW. Panther mgs require facing, don't function great at range, can't be given targets, and iirc comets also eventually get to throw grenades which is great at clearing atgs.

posting after long time and i see the december fall balance preview

andthe allied bias of this is so apprent its not even funny

so basically high tier armor nerfed hard,but rest is the same..??
the biggest issue you increase opocap of axis armor but no of the allied ones,even though nerf on elephant,jadtiger,sturmtiger are so hard ..??,and no increasing the support fire antiiinfy role for jadtiger is unfitting you are just posting that to hide your blatant bias


is this a patch for 1v1 or team battles..??

posting after long time and i see the december fall balance preview

andthe allied bias of this is so apprent its not even funny

so basically high tier armor nerfed hard,but rest is the same..??
the biggest issue you increase opocap of axis armor but no of the allied ones,even though nerf on elephant,jadtiger,sturmtiger are so hard ..??,and no increasing the support fire antiiinfy role for jadtiger is unfitting you are just posting that to hide your blatant bias


is this a patch for 1v1 or team battles..??

Team Battles.

comets also eventually get to throw grenades which is great at clearing atgs.

You have done something wrong when you allowed a squishy tanks to close in to your pak wall. A single teller mine or even a well positioned pak (or any tank nearby) + grenadiers to faust the comet is enough to keep comet from nading your at gun.

Once it is fausted, it's a meat for your pak or stug or panther or stuka CAS.

And if you let the comet to nade your cloaked AT rakketens then ...


I would change good DPS via HMGS for a niche nade any day.

You have done something wrong when you allowed a squishy tanks to close in to your pak wall. A single teller mine or even a well positioned pak (or any tank nearby) + grenadiers to faust the comet is enough to keep comet from nading your at gun.

Once it is fausted, it's a meat for your pak or stug or panther or stuka CAS.

And if you let the comet to nade your cloaked AT rakketens then ...


I would change good DPS via HMGS for a niche nade any day.

Comet can take ATGs with or with out grenades, with WP.

If Comet is in danger or mines so is Panther (and arguably more)that has to close to at leat 35 range so that its MGs can fire.

Comet can take ATGs with or with out grenades, with WP.

If Comet is in danger or mines so is Panther (and arguably more)that has to close to at leat 35 range so that its MGs can fire.

I never attack AT guns with panther because it is its common counter. Like paks counter mother tanks except heavy AI tanks. If I wanted to kill paks I would hire brumbaar

It's important to note that the Ostheer Panther has way worse stats on the MGs than the OKW Panther which is the whole reason why it is so useless against infantry.

You have done something wrong when you allowed a squishy tanks to close in to your pak wall. A single teller mine or even a well positioned pak (or any tank nearby) + grenadiers to faust the comet is enough to keep comet from nading your at gun.

Once it is fausted, it's a meat for your pak or stug or panther or stuka CAS.

And if you let the comet to nade your cloaked AT rakketens then ...


I would change good DPS via HMGS for a niche nade any day.

I should point out I'm talking ostheer panther, not OKW panther or the okw command panther.

And I was describing the prepatch comet as well.

2 panthers is 350 fuel and 3 panthers is approaching 525 fuel. Think about that level of fuel investment for a moment when considering their performance.

Aa far as the old comets, their main gun at the time would kill 1-2+ models per shot at maximum (sight) range. 2 comets could wipe an ostheer squad nearly everytime they saw one through FOW. Panther mgs require facing, don't function great at range, can't be given targets, and iirc comets also eventually get to throw grenades which is great at clearing atgs.

That is less than five shermans though, and much easier to control and keep alive. Maybe in 1v1s it's not very feasible, but in teamgames it can be a serious problem, especially when kts or jts start rolling out too, or when every player has 2-3 panthers.

That is less than five shermans though, and much easier to control and keep alive. Maybe in 1v1s it's not very feasible, but in teamgames it can be a serious problem, especially when kts or jts start rolling out too, or when every player has 2-3 panthers.

It's almost as if resources in teamgames are skewed. Cutoff play is more or less non-existent on nearly any 3v3 and 4v4 map. Other times each team player might be able to influence a fraction of the resource income for the entire team.

One fuel point is giving 7 fuel per player on the team. In team games, you can double, triple, even quadruple team another player. No faction can handle that kind of force concentration.

In team games it's often easier to get a panther out before a USF player has the CPs to even call in an M10.

In my opinion, no amount of unit tweaking will address any of the above issues, all of which are unique to team games.

Panther V
Now in an even better spot.

in an even better spot.

better spot™

Large fan of most changes for v1.3. In particular the ratken projectile fix is a critical.

However, i feel this trend to continually move the p5 toward a more generalist tank role is wrong. The p4 serves this very well while staying fragile enough to be easily countered. We should be scaling the AI back in favor of AT, absolutely noone buys a p5 for AI. no one.

Isn't the demo now about the same as the paratrooper explosive only that it can be set off?

The change will make the demo go from a clearly broken one-click squad wiper to something that works even less as a anti-blob measure as the original broken design. Blobs are monitored and everyone will spot a 3 second timer and will be able to react accordingly. Also, won't the design just encourage a player to spend an additional 5 munitions to place a mine under it and with that get the same cheesy squad wipes but now without the need to press a button?

Solutions I'd prefer:
1) completely remove demos and just replace them with s-mines
2) have demos kill all but one entity in a squad within its blast radius: the demo starts being more cost effective the more squads are within the blast radius and it stops wiping squads outright
3) have it deal 70 (or a more appropriate amount of) damage within a larger radius to punish blobs and reduce the cost

Also, won't the design just encourage a player to spend an additional 5 munitions to place a mine under it and with that get the same cheesy squad wipes but now without the need to press a button?

We've already predicted that. Trying to blow up demos passively still sets off the timer.

Primarily, you are going to use your demos vs structures, since they are now affordable. You could also try to score a cheeky wipe on the retreat path.

We've already predicted that. Trying to blow up demos passively still sets off the timer.

Primarily, you are going to use your demos vs structures, since they are now affordable. You could also try to score a cheeky wipe on the retreat path.

Brilliant. At least there is that. Good prediction

I should have know they wouldn't allow the Jackson, even more expensive now, to be really good.