The Cheese Balance Preview

Calm down guys. Yes, there are some issues but it is better than what you are trying to show here.

Volks

What is wrong with Volks? They are a very fragile main line inf that doesn't deal that hell of damage without their StG44 which they only get after T1/2 and 60 mun which OKW lacks. Flamenade is strong yes, but its not like Volks is the best inf in the game.

6 minute Luchs

Which should only happen if you are really failing on denying the OKW player the fuel. Also Luchs means no indirect fire and no heal without Sturm babysit. Don't get me wrong, the Luchs comes REALLY early and is very strong, but as soon as you get AT in any form and a light tank, it goes down like butter.

Flame HT

Same thing with the Luchs, comes even later because of 120 mun. Dies fast, has horrible pathing, no AT at all and delays Tech because of 30 fuel. Can also not reinforce anymore with flamers equipped. It is something Ost needs vs building spam and sim city.

Command P4 (25% extra health LMAO)

Didn't know about the health tbh. Otherwise it is a better inf killer but struggles against any other kind of armor. Also only useful if you have multiple armor which is seldom as Ost (I mean more than 1 other tank).

OKW 4 minute FRP

That's just bullshit. You know what? You can also build it even faster but it won't serve you any purpose because it takes 600 MP to get the FRP and no one can use it if there is no unit on the field.

Sturmtiger

Hard to say if it is OP. Through shot blockers, yes. But also Land Matresses and Calliopes are very strong in wiping infantry from a safer distance than the Sturmtiger. Otherwise it takes about a minute to reload, so if it misses and the enemy has armour neirby, they will penetrate its 38cm hole.

Dont forget the 160 ammo, only audio warning, Stuka strike bomb, that covers quarter of an average map.
And the magic "u cant use vehicles" button, called Jagdtiger.

Accepted, Stuka is stupid and costs too less for its usage. Jagdtiger is also op.

But wait there's more:
ost mortar laser guided autofire

Naaah, its a good mortar with only 4 men. Ost is designed to have the best support weapons (Mortar, MG42, Pak), so everything else they have is shit.
Ost mortar has good accuracy but can't do nothing vs 120mm, PakHowie or Mortar Emplacement.

222s cheapst scout car in the game effective vs light vehicles and infantry

It's no tank hunter lol. If you don't have rubbish micro, your light tank will always win in terms of AI and AT. Also 222 dies from infantry fire.

stug spam

Ost has nothing else to counter tanks, as the PaK40 dies way too fast vs indirect fire and the Panther and PzGrens are too expensive

pwerfer suppresing and instawiping infantry

Suppressing yes, wiping no. It is really hard to wipe a squad with a Panzerwerfer.

elephant impossible to counter

Still easier to counter than KT

no side techs for fausts or nades for axis

Needed because Allies win the Light Tank game because a) they get them faster and b) Ost has none. Even if a PaK40 hits the Tank in the first shot, it will drive around it and not eat another one. No the PaK is dead and there is nothing Ost can do. For this reason they need AT snares. Arguably Brits suffer the same way against Luchs too, but at least they could counter it with the AEC.

stuka fastest artillery in the game with no scatter at all

Is it the fastest? Don't know about that, honestly asking. The no scatter part is pretty nice for taking out a line, but if you play as Allies and you here the SWOOOSH you can usually think were it will land and dodge, at least with you main inf. For support weapons it sucks, yes.

obersoldaten literally terminator T1000 of this game

This is by far the most bullshit of this whole thread. They take ages and massive amounts of MP to reinforce, are useless without upgrades and literally die like flies. I don't even know why but they die so damn quickly.

okw p4 best medium tank in the game

It is a very strong medium, but it comes very late. If you get the gamble right, it can bring devastation to the enemy, but if the enemy already has enough AT or a heavy, it isn't as good anymore.

schwerer panzer hq with giagantic Flak on top of it wiping infantry and killing light vehicles

If you are not asleep and walk into a Flak HQ with a full HP squad, you will get out EVERYTIME (if there is nothing else on the way back home). Look at the Bofors, if you want to see what a Flak on Steroids is as it will wipe retreating squads with a very high efficiency.

Oh lord this thread.....

Sturms
Kubel armor
Volks
6 minute Luchs
Ju87 Loiter
Flame HT
Command P4 (25% extra health LMAO)
OKW 4 minute FRP
Leig
Sturmtiger

Take your pick really.
This isn't even scraping the bottom half of the bullshit barrel.

Not one of these are valid i'm afraid and are certainly light years from being cheese and game breaking.

Strums- They cost 320 manpower very expensive for a early game unit and have to close distance to be effective otherwise they are useless (which is why you very rarely see them spammed). They will get torn to pieces if they try to rush rifleman.

-Kubel Again is not a game breaking unit. The british have the far better bren carrier which is superior in every single way and the same goes for the soviet and american trucks. The kubel will lose 100% of the time to these comparable units. Are you saying that the bren and clown car are game breaking as well?

-Volks Again allied infantry are superior especially the Americans so your point holds no weight.

-Luch, Allies can bring out even faster light vehicles that can counter this.

-Flame HT, The bren flame can be upgraded before the flame ht even arrives so again I don't see your point and the soviets can create flame trucks with engineers about 5 mins before the flame ht even arrives.

I really do not see the point in going through every single one of these as they are just not game breaking or cheese in the slightest.

ITT: Someone who is pissed because he lost a match to USF/Sov.

ITT: Someone who is too mentally challenged to use arguments to support their position.


Huh, it's almost as if those sort of replies contribute nothing to the discussion, cause everybody to get pissed and defensive, and turn the discussion hostile. Good work on achieving nothing but increasing the terribly toxic environment here...

Dont forget the 160 ammo, only audio warning, Stuka strike bomb, that covers quarter of an average map.
And the magic "u cant use vehicles" button, called Jagdtiger.

The stuka strike dive bomb does need a cost increase to 200 muntions. It is slow to hit however and there are audio warnings given the opponent ample opportunity to retreat. Thus it can not be cheese as the player has options and will be out of scope of this cheese patch.

I really see no sense in this thread. You guys know there will be no patch in near future. So why even talking/ writing about?

Calm down guys. Yes, there are some issues but it is better than what you are trying to show here.

What is wrong with Volks? They are a very fragile main line inf that doesn't deal that hell of damage without their StG44 which they only get after T1/2 and 60 mun which OKW lacks. Flamenade is strong yes, but its not like Volks is the best inf in the game.

Whats wrong: free at, free nades, free stgs upgrade, great at every range throughout the whole game, incediary nades have no wind up and make cover ineffective vs them. OKW lacks muni? Thats a new lie. Its the most cost effective infantry. Being cheap and effective. They dont overpower but arent underpowered they stand a chance vs every other infantry at every range. They are universally good at every stage of the game at every range in every situation while being really cheap. For instance IS great at long range but shit at short range, rifles are comparable but need sidetechs. Also FRP doubles volks effectivness. Cons cost around the same but are trash at every stage of the game at every range. Also volks have 5 vets.

Which should only happen if you are really failing on denying the OKW player the fuel. Also Luchs means no indirect fire and no heal without Sturm babysit. Don't get me wrong, the Luchs comes REALLY early and is very strong, but as soon as you get AT in any form and a light tank, it goes down like butter.

Failing to deny OKW fuel is quite often thanks to sturmpios + kubels opens. Need I say more? Its power goes down when light AT vehicles hit the field? Thats another lie. Its power gets just normalized like when every allied vehicle gets countered by an AT gun the moment it hits the field.

Same thing with the Luchs, comes even later because of 120 mun. Dies fast, has horrible pathing, no AT at all and delays Tech because of 30 fuel. Can also not reinforce anymore with flamers equipped. It is something Ost needs vs building spam and sim city.

Flame HT upgrade costs 90 muni not 120. Maybe play the game for once before you talk. It has the same damage as heavy flame tank churchill crocodile. And its super effective vs garrisoned units or emplacements. Especially useful vs brits who lack vehicle snare.

Didn't know about the health tbh. Otherwise it is a better inf killer but struggles against any other kind of armor. Also only useful if you have multiple armor which is seldom as Ost (I mean more than 1 other tank).

Its not seldom at all.

That's just bullshit. You know what? You can also build it even faster but it won't serve you any purpose because it takes 600 MP to get the FRP and no one can use it if there is no unit on the field.

it costs 300 mp just like brits frp or did they change the cost recently? Uhh... No they didnt. The rest is the cost of teching which every faction has to do. Its the earliest and the most reliable FRP in the game. Its fastest than soviet m5 reinforcement truck which is a fucking joke.

Hard to say if it is OP. Through shot blockers, yes. But also Land Matresses and Calliopes are very strong in wiping infantry from a safer distance than the Sturmtiger. Otherwise it takes about a minute to reload, so if it misses and the enemy has armour neirby, they will penetrate its 38cm hole.

Hard to say if its op?! Are you shitting me? Its a oneshot wipe of tanks or vetted infantry. It can shoot through shot blockers and from fog of war.

Naaah, its a good mortar with only 4 men. Ost is designed to have the best support weapons (Mortar, MG42, Pak), so everything else they have is shit.
Ost mortar has good accuracy but can't do nothing vs 120mm, PakHowie or Mortar Emplacement.

Naah, its an laser guided infantry massacre machine. 4 men yeah so what? Mortars are not supposed to facetank so whats the difference? Everything else they have is shit? Please do elaborate which units did you have in mind? Do tell us which ost units are so shitty?

It's no tank hunter lol. If you don't have rubbish micro, your light tank will always win in terms of AI and AT. Also 222 dies from infantry fire.

Nobody said its a tank hunter! Are you trying to be stupid on purpose? Two 222s can deal with t70 easily or even su76. Also 222 dies from infantry fire, yeah, a LOT of infantry fire.

Ost has nothing else to counter tanks, as the PaK40 dies way too fast vs indirect fire and the Panther and PzGrens are too expensive

Basically no ammount of allied tanks can win against stug spam.

Suppressing yes, wiping no. It is really hard to wipe a squad with a Panzerwerfer.

Suppressing yes, wiping yes. I dont know what game are you playing really.

Still easier to counter than KT

Still impossible to counter

Needed because Allies win the Light Tank game because a) they get them faster and b) Ost has none. Even if a PaK40 hits the Tank in the first shot, it will drive around it and not eat another one. No the PaK is dead and there is nothing Ost can do. For this reason they need AT snares. Arguably Brits suffer the same way against Luchs too, but at least they could counter it with the AEC.

Please give me the number of your dealer, I want the same stuff that you're on. Allies win light tank game?! Allies get light tanks faster?! Ost double scout car can deal with any light vehicle. Even if a PaK40 hits the Tank in the first shot, it will drive around it and not eat another one. And grens are gonna just stand there and watch the tank do that or are they gonna faust the tank? From what I remember fausts are for free by just teching up and fausts penetrate practically 100% of the time vs allied medium tanks. Because fausts have 150 penetration and allied tanks have 150/160 armor.

Is it the fastest? Don't know about that, honestly asking. The no scatter part is pretty nice for taking out a line, but if you play as Allies and you here the SWOOOSH you can usually think were it will land and dodge, at least with you main inf. For support weapons it sucks, yes.

Somehow the notion you dont know something doesnt really seem to me that strange. It costs 155 fuel to rush stuka and 250 to rush katyusha. Thats what I mean by saying its the fastest arty in the game. Because it is. "but if you play as Allies and you here the SWOOOSH you can usually think were it will land" thats the most idiotic thing you've said so far

This is by far the most bullshit of this whole thread. They take ages and massive amounts of MP to reinforce, are useless without upgrades and literally die like flies. I don't even know why but they die so damn quickly.

They kill vetted enemy infantry like flies from a distance. They can get like 30 kills in 5 minutes after getting fielded. They are crazy fucking strong. They oneshot snipers like its nothing. And vetted obers a mobile suppresion platform. They are bullpudding all the way.

It is a very strong medium, but it comes very late. If you get the gamble right, it can bring devastation to the enemy, but if the enemy already has enough AT or a heavy, it isn't as good anymore.

It comes around the same time as ost p4 or usf sherman. Its impossible for the enemy to have a heavy tank at if you rush p4. Physically impossible because they would lack commander points. IMPOSSIBLE. Its the best medium tank.

If you are not asleep and walk into a Flak HQ with a full HP squad, you will get out EVERYTIME (if there is nothing else on the way back home). Look at the Bofors, if you want to see what a Flak on Steroids is as it will wipe retreating squads with a very high efficiency.

Bofors is side tech, flak hq is a free tech up bonus. At the same time usf gets a major. Impact of the two is impossible to compare. On some maps flak hq denies access to half of the map.

I really see no sense in this thread. You guys know there will be no patch in near future. So why even talking/ writing about?

It's mostly people who have no clue what they are talking about crying about a lot of stuff that isn't an issue.

The asshurt runs deep.

I don't want a massive debate on all the other units etc. This cheese patch is only about broken mechanics "field hq/brace and partisans " It only addresses the cheese to make the game playable.

As for things like strums being cheese and game breaking its just not plausable because they flat out are not.

If anyone has any plausible additions to the patch that addresses only cheese then I will add them to the next version .

Another hero who thinks that cheese only exists on the allies side Zzzz

With nearly 3000 hours playing this game I would say I am very experienced in what is wrong and right with this game.

If you have any suggestions on what axis units or abilities are total cheese then let me know so I can add them in (aside from stuka dive bomb) there have been no serious suggestions on axis cheese.

With nearly 3000 hours playing this game I would say I am very experienced in what is wrong and right with this game.

.

Im sorry, but that statement is nullified as long as you dont provide a playercard

Just kidding I gave up on .org balance discussions

I like how neither side will compromise in every balance discussion . If you want to fix the cheese, you have to get together and make a list of axis and allied cheese. Currently, the community would be the death of this game if they got their way.

Im sorry, but that statement is nullified as long as you dont provide a playercard

Donniechan? Is that you?

Nice fucking flame bro. And you have referee status? What a joke. Have some decency and resign from being a referee at least if you wanna flame like cunt ^^

I didn't realize I was flaming.

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Oh lord this thread.....

+1

Not one of these are valid i'm afraid and are certainly light years from being cheese and game breaking.

Strums- They cost 320 manpower very expensive for a early game unit and have to close distance to be effective otherwise they are useless (which is why you very rarely see them spammed). They will get torn to pieces if they try to rush rifleman.

-Kubel Again is not a game breaking unit. The british have the far better bren carrier which is superior in every single way and the same goes for the soviet and american trucks. The kubel will lose 100% of the time to these comparable units. Are you saying that the bren and clown car are game breaking as well?

-Volks Again allied infantry are superior especially the Americans so your point holds no weight.

-Luch, Allies can bring out even faster light vehicles that can counter this.

-Flame HT, The bren flame can be upgraded before the flame ht even arrives so again I don't see your point and the soviets can create flame trucks with engineers about 5 mins before the flame ht even arrives.

I really do not see the point in going through every single one of these as they are just not game breaking or cheese in the slightest.

Okw has rak so you can't make more than one UC or clown car. Not so with the kubel. I make 2 every game as okw cuz it's dumb not to.

The stuka strike dive bomb does need a cost increase to 200 muntions. It is slow to hit however and there are audio warnings given the opponent ample opportunity to retreat. Thus it can not be cheese as the player has options and will be out of scope of this cheese patch.

I don't see why it can't just have some GD smoke. Literally every other targeted offmap has smoke and this one's a hell of a lot better than most at wiping.

With nearly 3000 hours playing this game I would say I am very experienced in what is wrong and right with this game.

If you have any suggestions on what axis units or abilities are total cheese then let me know so I can add them in (aside from stuka dive bomb) there have been no serious suggestions on axis cheese.

Double kubel to pfusies spam and fast luchs is pretty cancer. Then you have the JT for lategame teamgames too with the same strat.

Donniechan? Is that you?

Lol. He has no right to be mad simply on the virtue of that was a pretty funny statement.

Sturms
Kubel armor
Volks
6 minute Luchs
Ju87 Loiter
Flame HT
Command P4 (25% extra health LMAO)
OKW 4 minute FRP
Leig
Sturmtiger

Take your pick really.
This isn't even scraping the bottom half of the bullshit barrel.

super camo on rakatens but still have retreat
cheap spammable incendiary grenades no one asked for volks to have to being with
VET 5