osther vs usf

i play 2v2 and find osther is op against usf. what are the weak sides of ostheer? they soak manpower but they dont get soaked.. grenadiers are assassins with jaeger light infantry upgrade. mortars are sniper.. even if you push them back in the start you cant kill them in the end.. they got everyting.. you just can not deal with them in the late game.. annoying.

They soak manpower but they dont get soaked

Not correct. Ostheer is with UKF the faction that is mostly suffering from MP bleed. Their main inf costs 240MP and consists of 4 men that cost 30(!) MP per unit to reinforce. Also every OH unit (besides Osttruppen and Sturmgrens) consists of only 4 men that means they have to retreat after 2 men died on the field.

grenadiers are assassins with jaeger light infantry upgrade

The G43 is no SMG. Yes it can fire on the move, but you won't insta lose any unit that won't retreat after a second. Besides the G43 is only available in one "good" commander afaik (Lightning War). Rifles with double Bars and Sections with double Brens are way more dangerous especially with vet.

mortars are sniper.. even if you push them back in the start you cant kill them in the end

Ostheer mortars indeed are strong but consist of 4 men only and cannot fight Mortar Pits. Allies have units that are way more mobile (besides Brits) and deal more damage up close. So flank the mortar or force it to retreat. If the Ostheer player is forced to keep his mortar in his base all the time, it doesn't serve a purpose there.

they got everyting..

Besides a light tank as literally every other faction has Also Ostheer has no "dedicated" Tank Hunter (besides the Elefant which I won't mention because you have to stall for it). The StuG is really good but can only take a few shots, has no turret and suffers from bad pathing. Panther is overpriced.

you just can not deal with them in the late game.. annoying.

Probably YOU have problems dealing with them. Their strongest unit is the Tiger, which is a very good but vulnerable allrounder. The Elefant is an excellent Tank Destroyer but once circled or damaged, will go down very fast especially against infantry AT. Otherwise there is no OH super tank (Tiger Ace sucks as a cheese tank but you don't see it that often these days and it will get nerfed extremely in FBP). IMO OH is the balanced faction of all at the moment.

Not correct. Ostheer is with UKF the faction that is mostly suffering from MP bleed. Their main inf costs 240MP and consists of 4 men that cost 30(!) MP per unit to reinforce. Also every OH unit (besides Osttruppen and Sturmgrens) consists of only 4 men that means they have to retreat after 2 men died on the field.


The G43 is no SMG. Yes it can fire on the move, but you won't insta lose any unit that won't retreat after a second. Besides the G43 is only available in one "good" commander afaik (Lightning War). Rifles with double Bars and Sections with double Brens are way more dangerous especially with vet.


Ostheer mortars indeed are strong but consist of 4 men only and cannot fight Mortar Pits. Allies have units that are way more mobile (besides Brits) and deal more damage up close. So flank the mortar or force it to retreat. If the Ostheer player is forced to keep his mortar in his base all the time, it doesn't serve a purpose there.


Besides a light tank as literally every other faction has Also Ostheer has no "dedicated" Tank Hunter (besides the Elefant which I won't mention because you have to stall for it). The StuG is really good but can only take a few shots, has no turret and suffers from bad pathing. Panther is overpriced.


Probably YOU have problems dealing with them. Their strongest unit is the Tiger, which is a very good but vulnerable allrounder. The Elefant is an excellent Tank Destroyer but once circled or damaged, will go down very fast especially against infantry AT. Otherwise there is no OH super tank (Tiger Ace sucks as a cheese tank but you don't see it that often these days and it will get nerfed extremely in FBP). IMO OH is the balanced faction of all at the moment.

so whats your build order against osther as usf

so whats your build order against osther as usf

3 Rifles Start, extremely aggressive, get into the key houses very quickly. Echelons meanwhile cap the sectors. Always have two Rifles in one area (spaced out) if one gets suppressed by an MG42, flank it with the other squad. If the OH player gets more than one MG, get Nades for Smoke and/or a mortar. Always keep in mind that static play is deadly for USF. Don't keep your troops behind green cover, Grens are better in that.

Get Captain as soon as possible, fast Stuart for harassment (if you manage to get any German support weapons, GET THEM). Get another RE squad and equip both with Bazookas. Get Bars for all your Rifles. As USF you have to play as aggressive as possible, push him out of the map. Ost can't do shit against your Light Tank, keep away from his Grens as their Faust is the only thing that can harm you. If your enemy gets Panzerschreck PzGrens, kill them with your infantry, PzGrens with Schrecks don't do anything against Inf anymore. The Stuart will eat 3 PaK shots until it dies as far as I remember, so if you get hit, drive out of the arc, better to the sides, as the range of the PaK is huge.

If you managed to keep him of the map, you will have way more ressources than he does. Get a fast Sherman, kill his inf. If he has a Pak, soak up the first shots with the Sherman, and kill the PaK with your Stuart and Inf.

Your Sherman will be able to fight against everything he has. Ostwinds can't do shit against Shermans, the Panzer 4 will go down against your Bazooka REs and AT nade Rifles. The StuG is good against your tank but can't do anything against your infantry.

If he gets a Panther, you didn't harass well enough as it is an immense fuel investment. Also you can win against a Panther with a Jackson and AT nades/Bazookas. Don't look at the Tiger as an immortal beast; it is simply a Panzer 4 with more health and a better cannon. In terms of armor it is not very good, most of the shots from a Jackson will penetrate.

In summary: Push all the time, do not, by any means, play defensive with USF, even use your mortar as smoker to attack. Rush out the Stuart as fast as possible and get even more aggressive. Forget about Lieutenant Tier at the moment, you don't need the MG, AT Gun, FlaK, or M20.

USF is just frustrating to play anywhere but 1vs1 at the moment, they are not completely useless but you will certainly struggle unless you can consintently deny the enemy resources and secure triple caps, you will lean on your ally hard for Lategame if you fail to do so which isn't always possible in 2vs2 randoms.

An agressive army built around flanking will not work well when you can get double team'd.

An agressive army built around flanking will not work well

I feel USF will never be that good in teamgames because teamgames are 99% about static play, taking one VP/fuel and holding it, maybe branching out a little bit to help cap the mid VP. Flanking is largely impossible with clearly defined chokepoints that are all covered as long as the enemy has an IQ above single digits.

USF teamgame viability used to ride on the back of CalliOP/Priest cheese, especially by abusing the decrew ability with Priests. Maybe post-FBP m36 spam will be the new face of USF teamgame, but I doubt it since Brits are much better at static play from the beginning to the end of the game, and Firefly spam is already great.

I feel USF will never be that good in teamgames because teamgames are 99% about static play, taking one VP/fuel and holding it, maybe branching out a little bit to help cap the mid VP. Flanking is largely impossible with clearly defined chokepoints that are all covered as long as the enemy has an IQ above single digits.

USF teamgame viability used to ride on the back of CalliOP/Priest cheese, especially by abusing the decrew ability with Priests. Maybe post-FBP m36 spam will be the new face of USF teamgame, but I doubt it since Brits are much better at static play from the beginning to the end of the game, and Firefly spam is already great.

You can make them work, but I have no doubt Brits could do all they do better, Or just double Soviets to counter double OKW, I need to get back into 2vs2 randoms and see how things are, Priest were getting buffed when they were gonna remove their crews right?

I blame it on bad map design. General mud, without all stupid the mud, should be an example for map sizes in team games. Maps just need to be larger in team game modes. I hope they create a community map competition for larger game modes.

I blame it on bad map design. General mud, without all stupid the mud, should be an example for map sizes in team games. Maps just need to be larger in team game modes. I hope they create a community map competition for larger game modes.

There isn't much incentive for mapmakers though since making huge maps like that involves much, much more effort than 1v1/2v2.

I feel USF will never be that good in teamgames because teamgames are 99% about static play, taking one VP/fuel and holding it

Absolutely this, and this is the reason why teamgames will not be balanced. It's simply not what the baseline is laid out for. The units are too squishy and moving forward is too punishing with many guns around.

I actually blame it on something else. Faction design in flawed. Factions like ostheer or brits designed to be so defensive in nature that relic had to create some weakpoints for them. Thats why both ost snd brit infantries prefer long range, static fighting and are fairly squishy, ost even more than brits. Basically everything that ost has is very squishy and mp draining. Thats why both factions have so high quality/high dps units, because they are squishy. That when combined with narrow, badly designed maps makes for a really terrible gameplay for both sides. On the other hand both brits and ost are very susceptible to any flanks, mortars, arty, heavy AI vehicles. Because their units are so squishy you can literally wipe everything they have with one good arty or flank.

This is not really an enjoyable playstyle for anyone. One side is frustrated with overwhelming quality of enemy units, the other with their squishiness. I'd rather prefer if both sides had pros and cons but both were more less mobile and aggresive in nature, not static and defensive.

USF and Brits are now with rocobops from starcraft, with armor magic and they infantry use lazer.

Wermach and OKW looks a age of empires army.

Soo bad, this game updated since launch for balance and they dont are finish yeat.

USF and Brits are now with rocobops from starcraft, with armor magic and they infantry use lazer.

Wermach and OKW looks a age of empires army.

Soo bad, this game updated since launch for balance and they dont are finish yeat.

I want to play the game you are playing.

USF is just frustrating to play anywhere but 1vs1 at the moment

I enjoy playing USF 3vs3 and 4vs4 at the moment

USF infantry beats OST infantry all stage of the game if you know how to win the engeagement

the fact : usf cant kill the sniper

Oh man. It is well known that Ost is the most UP faction of 5, along with Soviets.

they got everyting.. you just can not deal with them in the late game.. annoying.

Ost DO NOT have everything:
- It´s the only faction that dont have any kind of light tank.
- They dont have any TD for late game stages (besides Elephant, but its behind a doctrine).
- Their infantry only consist of 4men squads and has very poor survavility in the late game stages.
- They always loose infantry to infantry engagements. Always ends retreating. And if your infantry sucks, you cant cap points easily and you suffer from low Muni and Fuel.
- Arty sucks (pwerfer) compared to Katys, Matress, Calliope and StukasZuFus.
- Stock Tanks (P4 and P5) are expensive, low damage, poor accuracy and UP compared to Brits and Sovs.

Ost can bleed USF well and if given munitions early can steamroll over USF with lmg grens and rifle nades.

Infantry spam builds and slow expand builds work against USF typically

Really depends on map and placement. On some maps, rifles destroy, on others, Ostheer does great.

USF infantry beats OST infantry all stage of the game if you know how to win the engeagement

WOW GENIUS! By your logic conscripts are the most OP infantry ever.

Is this the new "smoke and flank" meme?

Oh man. It is well known that Ost is the most UP faction of 5, along with Soviets.

Ost DO NOT have everything:
- It´s the only faction that dont have any kind of light tank.
- They dont have any TD for late game stages (besides Elephant, but its behind a doctrine).
- Their infantry only consist of 4men squads and has very poor survavility in the late game stages.
- They always loose infantry to infantry engagements. Always ends retreating. And if your infantry sucks, you cant cap points easily and you suffer from low Muni and Fuel.
- Arty sucks (pwerfer) compared to Katys, Matress, Calliope and StukasZuFus.
- Stock Tanks (P4 and P5) are expensive, low damage, poor accuracy and UP compared to Brits and Sovs.

hahahahahaha, you can't be serious...

222 is the best light vehicle in the game, especially when you put in the price table and the vehicles he competes with.
Stugs and panthers are the best tanks in their role, makes allies tanks completely useless and the only way to counter it is to suicide rush and hope for the best.
their infantry dominates all game and at vet 3 they are more than okay, and all they have to do is cap points while the superior armor deals with everything else.
Pwerfer is super OP late game, it insta wipe squads pretty much every volley and the ones that survive get pinned, making VP denial a huge deal late game. Also LeFH is OP as hell, much better than allied counterparts.
P4 is just superior than all allied stock mediums and still can keep up with the special ones (EZ8, T34-85) you really are not using them right.

and ost does have everything:

2 specialized mines that are very cheap and no other faction has without commander/tech. Tellers just make rushing vehicles a huge gamble.
The teching is excellent and fluid, you don't have to choose between snipers and ATs.
True heavy infantry (PG) without needing commanders.

And many other things that I will just waste time listing.

Ost has so many things that most of the times I just forget to pick a commander, only to just use a single thing on the commander (skill planes, dive bomb, mortar HT. All excellent options btw)