Fall Balance Preview

Jackson is garbage. It gets countered by JP4 and has a hard time against any tanks with 50+ range (which includes all the units he's supposed to counter). Meanwhile he murders all the medium and light vehicles. The changes went into the complete wrong direction. Just put it's HP to 640 so he can survive and gain vet. Nothing else is required. Keep in mind, the long aim time due to the small firing arc plays an important role when engaging units.

You know that is the point of the JP4 right? It's supposed to counter tank destroyers, yet fails against fast or heavy tanks.

IS-2 HE shell ability, I feel that absolutely useless ability replaced on practicality useless ability:
- Icon of ability activation above the tank
- Very long delay before shooting
These two points make the blob away from the fire

- Not informative - the delay in shooting is very long and no information after how many seconds will be shooting, does not allow to shoot ahead

The only application that I see now: flank shooting at JagdTiger/Elephant with

For teamgame purpose imho we need 3rd axis faction which must be somewhat defensive like brits with emplacements etc.

Agreed

i also dont really understand why you want to "eliminate" call in doctrines that let you skip tech. thats the whole purpose of those doctrines, to give you an alternate way to play rather than always forcing you to tech the same way.

I know you didn't ask me, but I am going to reply anyway.

The call-in meta was actually what was forcing people into identical strats every time. If you want diversity, the call in changes are what will finally allow it, not destroy it.

90% of high level games are M4Cs/KV1s/KV8s vs Command Panther, or M10s vs Command Panther, or some variation on the theme. Not all call-ins are inherently too good. It's just that most factions have some hard-hitting mediums that come at the right CP time to allow not teching too much and still not being punished for it, but even rewarded with cost-effective units.

In what world is the M36 Jackson OP?
No matter, you barely play this game anyway it seems, heh.

Jackson still has crush.
Jackson turret rotation is quickest of all TD's;
Jackson speed is best of all other TD's; it can kite too well.
Jackson range is more or less the same as firelfy.

What does the ISU have in comparison?
The rest have unique abilities at least...

Jackson still has crush.
Jackson turret rotation is quickest of all TD's;
Jackson speed is best of all other TD's; it can kite too well.
Jackson range is more or less the same as firelfy.

What does the ISU have in comparison?
The rest have unique abilities at least...

Running an 480 HP TD into infantry will likely not end well.
Turret is one of it's few saving graces, it doesn't help as flanking with a M36 will often end up with a very dead vehicle crew, due to its low HP.
Kiting is it's only mean of survival due to low HP and poor Armor.
While range is good, in many maps and situations you won't be able to use it to your advantage due to shot blockers or requiring a unit to spot for you, which will mean more bleed in the lategame for USF.

The ISU-152 has a completely different role, not sure why you bring that unit up, it could use some buffs but it's not a TD.

Running an 480 HP TD into infantry will likely not end well.
Turret is one of it's few saving graces, it doesn't help as flanking with a M36 will often end up with a very dead vehicle crew, due to its low HP.
Kiting is it's only mean of survival due to low HP and poor Armor.
While range is good, in many maps and situations you won't be able to use it to your advantage due to shot blockers or requiring a unit to spot for you, which will mean more bleed in the lategame for USF.

The ISU-152 has a completely different role, not sure why you bring that unit up, it could use some buffs but it's not a TD.

I think the NEW jackson is better and should stay. I always play USF and with the jackson was difficult to kill a panther now with the health buff and its accurance it will be super easy

I think the NEW jackson is better and should stay. I always play USF and with the jackson was difficult to kill a panther now with the health buff and its accurance it will be super easy

I can't wait for that change to hit Live, a Slugger TD is much better for USF design and philosophy, though I'm sure people will complain about it in spite of it's increased cost.

Sooooo the only advantage JT had over elephant is 8 more range? Hmm k

Sooooo the only advantage JT had over elephant is 8 more range? Hmm k

Don't forget that amazing vet 5

Sooooo the only advantage JT had over elephant is 8 more range? Hmm k

If you ignore the AI abilities, the 125 additional armor points and 240 more hp, yes.

Should a steam group page to set up games with other players. Can't seem to find a game in customs game in coh2.

The quad in live is extremely effective, it shoots down planes in their first pass sometime before they even start shooting. From the little testing I did in mod it seem very capable there also.

Re-tested, it seems pretty strong. Unless directly targeted by the loiter, of course

Anti-air is, at any rate, implemented on a target-table basis. Therefore, we can simply make adjustments to damage as necessary.

We will look into this. However, how much difference in % (very roughly) would you say there is between the Ostwind, the pintle MG and the Quad?

I've done further testing, and I have different results: I've created a blob of enemy vehicles, then put the AA unit outside of the Loiter zone.

Used WM Stuka CAS to test. Keep in mind this loiter actually makes one final pass after the ability duration is over.

AA units listed in order of effectiveness.

Very Effective (downed both aircraft before duration of ability ended)
- Ostwind: approx. 20 sec
- M17 Quad: approx. 25 sec
- Bofors: approx. 30 sec. I tested this against Typhoons (Vanguard Operations Strafing Support), but they should perform the same way.
- Schwerer Panzer HQ: approx. 30 sec
- Sdkfz. 251/17 Flak HT: approx. 35 sec
- Centuar AAMk. II: approx. 40 sec

Effective (downed one aircraft before duration of ability ended)
- M15A1 AAHT: Its MGs do almost nothing, while the 37mm AAA is pretty effective. Also, it happens to rotate when engaging enemy aircraft, so it is advised to use handbrake.
- Sdkfz. 222
- pintle DshK: The pintle-mounted DshK is surprisingly effective.

Mediocre (downed one aircraft after duration of ability ended)
- 2cm Flak Emplacement

Ineffective (downed no aircraft after duration of ability ended)
- pintle M2HB: Reliably damages aircraft, never can bring them down however.
- pintle MG42: Pretty useless against aircraft.

In summary:
I would say that the M15A1 and the Centuar need a slight buff in the AA department. If you could fix the tendency of the M15A1 to "dance" when it engages aircraft (perhaps related to its limited firing arc?) that might do the trick. The Centuar is a dedicated AA platform much like the Ostwind, I would like to see it perform as well in the anti-aircraft department.

Additionally, the poor Flak Emplacement needs some love (although base Flak Emplacements need to not be able attack aircraft, or OKW would be more OP). Perhaps make it especially strong against aircraft to give it a niche role?

As nice as it may be that these community members give up their time to improve the game (albeit, as they see fit), I feel like trying to fix CoH2 with these patches is like beating a dead horse. The game doesn't need tweaking, rather, it requires an overhaul, and with Relic at the helm, this will never happen.

This, massive overhaul. Commanders is one of the biggest problems and its never getting fixed.

Re-tested, it seems pretty strong. Unless directly targeted by the loiter, of course



I've done further testing, and I have different results: I've created a blob of enemy vehicles, then put the AA unit outside of the Loiter zone.

Used WM Stuka CAS to test. Keep in mind this loiter actually makes one final pass after the ability duration is over.

AA units listed in order of effectiveness.

Very Effective (downed both aircraft before duration of ability ended)
- Ostwind: approx. 20 sec
- M17 Quad: approx. 25 sec
- Bofors: approx. 30 sec. I tested this against Typhoons (Vanguard Operations Strafing Support), but they should perform the same way.
- Schwerer Panzer HQ: approx. 30 sec
- Sdkfz. 251/17 Flak HT: approx. 35 sec
- Centuar AAMk. II: approx. 40 sec

Effective (downed one aircraft before duration of ability ended)
- M15A1 AAHT: Its MGs do almost nothing, while the 37mm AAA is pretty effective. Also, it happens to rotate when engaging enemy aircraft, so it is advised to use handbrake.
- Sdkfz. 222
- pintle DshK: The pintle-mounted DshK is surprisingly effective.

Mediocre (downed one aircraft after duration of ability ended)
- 2cm Flak Emplacement

Ineffective (downed no aircraft after duration of ability ended)
- pintle M2HB: Reliably damages aircraft, never can bring them down however.
- pintle MG42: Pretty useless against aircraft.

In summary:
I would say that the M15A1 and the Centuar need a slight buff in the AA department. If you could fix the tendency of the M15A1 to "dance" when it engages aircraft (perhaps related to its limited firing arc?) that might do the trick. The Centuar is a dedicated AA platform much like the Ostwind, I would like to see it perform as well in the anti-aircraft department.

Additionally, the poor Flak Emplacement needs some love (although base Flak Emplacements need to not be able attack aircraft, or OKW would be more OP). Perhaps make it especially strong against aircraft to give it a niche role?

Wanted to ask if all AA units will get the "Anti-Air" toggle ?

I can't wait for that change to hit Live, a Slugger TD is much better for USF design and philosophy, though I'm sure people will complain about it in spite of it's increased cost.

have you thouth that USF medium tanks are better than WEH medium tanks i mean sherman beats panzer iv and now i tested it jackson wins against stug

have you thouth that USF medium tanks are better than WEH medium tanks i mean sherman beats panzer iv and now i tested it jackson wins against stug

Maybe you should look at stug and jackson cost and then test 2 jacksons vs 3 stugs to have the same army on both sides.

Right now its like saying that falls beat partisans in 1v1 = falls > partisans

Wanted to ask if all AA units will get the "Anti-Air" toggle ?

There was a time when you had to toggle the Anti-Aircraft mode on the M15A1. They removed it for good reason: unnecessary micro tax.

All AA units will automatically engage enemy aircraft as their first priority.

If you're wondering if you can stop them from targeting aircraft, I'm not sure. You could test it by giving them an attack command when there is an enemy aircraft on the field.

Why is the scope so focused on unit buffs and nerfs and stat changes and so little or no focus at all on reworking and updating team maps. It's core problem to team games not the units themselves. Hell the elefant wouldnt be dominant if many of the maps weren't so open.

So your advice is to fix everything at once and to add conscripts to scope. And that 20+ pages of patch notes is "small patches" addressing "singular problems". Got it. Thanks for the great feedback, will definitely consider it for the future.

you see? he taught you well, now go and do what you've learned