Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

Is it really unfair that certain Allies units perform better than their Axis counterpart? I don't believe it is. Certain units will be better, certain units will be worse, but that's the charm of having different factions, each with their own distinct character and distinct unique feel. I disagree that Allies units are to be balanced to be carbon copies of Axis units, whilst completely ignoring everything else game-play wise. It'd be incredibly boring if every unit had their exact counterpart on every side at all time. The game would feel like C&C with GDI fighting GDI; Axis vs Axis is already really stale, glad that it's not possible in automatch.

So far, Mr.Smith has been really patient with his replies, despite offering great feedback to aforementioned changes and reasons why he did things in certain ways. Brits still need a bit of tweaking with emplacement and brace, but so far, all the changes are great, especially the FRP stuff. 4on4 with mod have never felt any better since WFA has been released.

To be honest there are always the same 3 or 4 people shouting about anything that isn't a massive nerf to allies and a massive buff to axis - perhaps they should group together and make their own mod.

Bit of a coincidence (it isn't) all those players hide their playercard as well....

i agree with vipper

because its just stupid design that a fast tank like a comet can just drive up to an atg and throw grenades even through its main gun is effective versus infantry. Churchill throwing grenades is fine, since its slow moving and a lot more venerable but the comet? no.

but everything else is amazing changes from mr smith

Just because they can throw grenades when certain conditions are met (Veterancy AND Mills bomb unlock!) doesn't automatically mean they counter ATGs. Most generalist counter ATGs one way or another when the ATG is flanked and without support. I still haven't seen anyone in the mod using grenades on comet to specifically counter ATGs

If some people spend less time in shoutbox and more time actually playing the game they would know that Comet can use grenades as an ability from vet 0 with no other condition and that in the mod they simply need to research grenades (which by the way saw a price decrease) to have access to the ability.

They do get additional grenades with vet but that is automatic and not an ability.

If some people spend less time in shoutbox and more time actually playing the game they [...]

Does it matter that I spend time in the shoutbox, or are you just trying to figure out some kind of way to pointlessly attack or troll me? I told you countless times to PM me if you think I spend too much time in the shout-box or if you have other personal problems with me. Keep off topic insults off this thread. This is a community forum that promotes user engagement, and you're telling me off for shoutbox banter. Let's ignore this pointless bit of the sentence and focus on the next bit you wrote:

...Comet can use grenades as an ability from vet 0 with no other condition and that in the mod they simply need to research grenades (which by the way saw a price decrease) to have access to the ability.

They do get additional grenades with vet but that is automatic and not an ability.

Yes, researching grenades is a condition. Veterancy IS another condition that heavily change the ability. We're talking about the mod here, not live. You're arguing semantics. Play the mod at some point instead of focusing on live experiences. I even invited you countless times to play the mod with me.

First of all I fully support this effort.

Any feedback and criticism is welcome!

What I have tried to provide is useful feedback as requested by MODERS so I don't really see why some people (other than MODERS) complain.

Given that the main factions we want the others to follow are the EFA, we began working on them first and resolving their issues to see how it affects the rest of the game before we work on WFA and Brits.
...

Fixing the EFA factions will also help us gain a better insight as to what “EFA-level” really means.

Should all units perform the same? NO, but they should be equally cost efficient unless they fall under the category faction design. (for instance Riflemen should be more cost efficient than other mainline infantry and their support less cost efficient due to faction design).

Establishing a base line and balancing other faction around baseline faction is one approach that might work but I don't really see being implement since most WFA units remain more cost efficient than that baseline.

Moving on.

...
Like, how much those units should cost, if we should also give 200 damage and 50 range to the Comet, etc, etc.

Imo (most) stock unit should not have 200 damage. They should only have damage bonus vs specific units (Heavies/Supper heavies). If one does not want to use target tables one could at an ability for the extra damage (passive or active that can only be aimed at the mentioned units).

For units with auras I would suggested that auras scale with veterancy. Most of this units could have start with a small passive buff like (+2.5% accuracy) and have the active part add 2.5%-5% DPS for ever vet level.


Perimeter overwatch
- Cost from 225MU to 150MU
- Duration from 240 seconds to 90 seconds
- (performance improved due to 25-pdr changes)
This ability does not seem to benefit from air-bust shells and it should imo.

In addition once it start firing it should not stop if the sector is decaped.

Finally since you seem to have buffed base artillery by allot you should also increase the friendly damage modifiers...

We are helping ourselves by playing the mod.This will help the Mod team to pin point problems faster.

Perimeter overwatch
- Cost from 225MU to 150MU
- Duration from 240 seconds to 90 seconds
- (performance improved due to 25-pdr changes)
This ability does not seem to benefit from air-bust shells and it should imo.

In addition once it start firing it should not stop if the sector is decaped.

The ability acquires a target that succeeds in the requirements, and fires one shell from each howitzer. Due to our manipulations of the howitzers, one shot will be pinpoint accurate, and the other one will land somewhere close. Maybe the ability works enough as it is.

Finally since you seem to have buffed base artillery by allot you should also increase the friendly damage modifiers...

We've already set 25 pounder friendly fire damage to 100%, we just forgot to announce it

The other ninja that has slipped off our notes is that Artillery regiment off-map also always uses Airburst shells, regardless of whether Anvil has been teched or not.

The ability acquires a target that succeeds in the requirements, and fires one shell from each howitzer. Due to our manipulations of the howitzers, one shot will be pinpoint accurate, and the other one will land somewhere close. Maybe the ability works enough as it is.

Now correct me if I am wrong but that means that if a sector is decaped the ability will ceases to work after firing 2 rounds. Imo it should continue to fire to sector that is being contested.

We've already set 25 pounder friendly fire damage to 100%, we just forgot to announce it

The other ninja that has slipped off our notes is that Artillery regiment off-map also always uses Airburst shells, regardless of whether Anvil has been teched or not.

Is the artillery of other factions lower? (cant remember now). I with the changes to Valentine/sexton (Valentine could see a cost reduction if radar become an upgrade limited to 1) you should adjust either cool-down or veterancy bonuses on Sexton because it can barrage continuously and gets allot of range at vet 3.

Advanced Forward Assembly
Due to modding tools limitations it is difficult to have 2 types of medic/repairmen on the same building.

- Removed from the mod (to make space for medics)
- Otherwise: Advanced Emplacement engineers will not repair Forward Assembly (only emplacements)

Is there are plan at all in place to make this ability do something at least? If we did manage to get Relic some time way down the line to use this mod as a patch, this really needs to be relevant. People paid for this commander after all, lest we forget.

• Counter battery ability seems not effected by the changes (in the MOD) to UKF arty and thus lackluster.
  
  Would suggest lowering counter shot to 3 per gun but increasing efficiency a bit.
  

Vickers_k
- DPS curve normalised to that of DP-28

This change will make it so that the performance of double-vickers-k units does not exceed the performance of Bren gun infantry by a lot
So the price should be reduces?

May Jackson M36 get Heavy Crash so it wouldn't stuck on each stump buhind it while reversing?

the main problem for Perimeter Overwatch is they stop firing as soon as enemy decap territory ,it's should help us protect or even regain those frontline

it's ok for how cheap it is but they really easy to stop atleast incendiary barrage still deny the area even if they repostion

• Counter battery ability seems not effected by the changes (in the MOD) to UKF arty and thus lackluster.
  
  Would suggest lowering counter shot to 3 per gun but increasing efficiency a bit.
  

Vickers_k
- DPS curve normalised to that of DP-28

This change will make it so that the performance of double-vickers-k units does not exceed the performance of Bren gun infantry by a lot
So the price should be reduces?

yea i was gna ask this and also, how much dps is lost total from dual vickersk in live?

Short question regarding recon paras:
Was it intentional to also remove the concentrated fire ability on the squad equipped with thompsons? As far as I can see, the squad has been nerfed in 4 aspects:
- 2 instead of 3 thompson upgrade
- 1 instead of two slots for upgrades (it used to be possible to have 3 thompsons and 2 bars)
- accuracy nerf, which is fine in exchange for vet 2 healing
- removal of concentrated fire (undocumented/bug?)

Short question regarding recon paras:
Was it intentional to also remove the concentrated fire ability on the squad equipped with thompsons? As far as I can see, the squad has been nerfed in 4 aspects:
- 2 instead of 3 thompson upgrade
- 1 instead of two slots for upgrades (it used to be possible to have 3 thompsons and 2 bars)
- accuracy nerf, which is fine in exchange for vet 2 healing
- removal of concentrated fire (undocumented/bug?)

yea it took a hard hit. it wasnt even to strong to begin with. i guess since they made them easy to get they nerfed them. but tbh i rather have old troop back even if its harder to get. i dont like weak troops

Short question regarding recon paras:
Was it intentional to also remove the concentrated fire ability on the squad equipped with thompsons? As far as I can see, the squad has been nerfed in 4 aspects:
- 2 instead of 3 thompson upgrade
- 1 instead of two slots for upgrades (it used to be possible to have 3 thompsons and 2 bars)
- accuracy nerf, which is fine in exchange for vet 2 healing
- removal of concentrated fire (undocumented/bug?)

Recon Paratroopers don't get Tactical Assault, they lay mines in exchange.

Give us your changes (if any) for the forementioned units as a starting point, and we can talk.

Imo the changes to UKF infantry are not enough since they can still equip Bren and Vickers or Bren and Piat and are still powerful in cover and weak on the move.

It might be worth to try the following suggestions :
1) Change bren from LMG to an "assault rifle" allowing to fire on move.
That would also be historical more accurate, since in real life bren is closer to bar than an LMG-42.
Reason: better synergy with both tommies and R.eng and allowing to change the role of tommies to from static defensive unit to more mobile unit.

2) Cover bonuses and penalties now apply only to lee Enfields. (point blank DPS of Lee Enfeilds should probably go down a bit.)

3) Bren DPS curves makes it strong at mid/close weak at long range, doubled equipped is allowed price goes down to 30-40.

Basically buying brens reduces the units long range DPS in cover but increases the DPS on the move and out of cover allowing player to modify the behavior of the unit.

4)Vickers K remains an LMG with it live DPS but its available only doctrinal in the S.W.R. . In addition the Resupply truck ability is scrapped with vickers K available either from base or from Forward Assembly.


Heavy Sappers upgrade:
Has no movement penalty
gives +1 armor so sapper take less damage when repairing underfire
increase squad size +1 so that they can increase with better speed but at the cost of more pop
replaces stens with lee Enfield so they do not become too good as close range unit.

What Change Bren role Form LMG TO Automatic Rifle like Bar

oh sit and look what happen soon

I Think Resupply Halftrack Drop Bar Insert DP-28 ahhh Vicker K ?

Imo the changes to UKF infantry are not enough since they can still equip Bren and Vickers or Bren and Piat and are still powerful in cover and weak on the move.

It might be worth to try the following suggestions :
1) Change bren from LMG to an "assault rifle" allowing to fire on move.
That would also be historical more accurate, since in real life bren is closer to bar than an LMG-42.
Reason: better synergy with both tommies and R.eng and allowing to change the role of tommies to from static defensive unit to more mobile unit.

2) Cover bonuses and penalties now apply only to lee Enfields. (point blank DPS of Lee Enfeilds should probably go down a bit.)


3) Bren DPS curves makes it strong at mid/close weak at long range, doubled equipped is allowed price goes down to 30-40.

Basically buying brens reduces the units long range DPS in cover but increases the DPS on the move and out of cover allowing player to modify the behavior of the unit.

It could be an idea to try. However, messing with DPS curves is very messy. It took us a lot of effort to test new Conscript DPS curves before we felt confident with releasing the mod.

The new Tommies click just fine when fighting vs OKW. There's flanking both ways going on, and it doesn't look like the Battle of the Blobs.

In the interest of making UKF vs OKW not feel like USF vs OKW, I'd rather Brens not require being stationary. Sapper Brens are already kinda in-between, in that the DPS is concentrated in shorter bursts making relocating a bit less punishing.

If Tommies are to remain a low-combat utility unit, this means they need to beat infantry head on (unless outmicro'ed). To prevent A-moving Bren blobs, I think that the current implementation of the cover penalties system is better; Enfields remain reliable for the early game, and Bren-blobs don't become the next A-move thing.

4)Vickers K remains an LMG with it live DPS but its available only doctrinal in the S.W.R. . In addition the Resupply truck ability is scrapped with vickers K available either from base or from Forward Assembly.

Double Vickers-K, with the current stats, and without the stupidity of the Scoped Enfields toning them down would create unstoppable A-move blobs.

DP-28 is a safer option because we already know that double-DPs are not -too- powerful.

It just isn't worth the time required to figure out how to limit DP-28's to one when picked up from the ground; that, or figuring out how to solve all the race conditions that might arise if you try to donate DP28's directly to a squad.

Also, I don't think relic would appreciate if the halftrack system was scrapped. The halftrack is, potentially, the #1 reason why people might have paid money for this commander (as opposed to just going Vanguard).

Heavy Sappers upgrade:
Has no movement penalty
gives +1 armor so sapper take less damage when repairing underfire
increase squad size +1 so that they can increase with better speed but at the cost of more pop
replaces stens with lee Enfield so they do not become too good as close range unit.

The current armour bonus is OP, which is why it was toned down.

Penalties while repairing can be messed at-will (e.g., EFA Vet3 bonus), without affecting the combat potency of the unit.