Teamgame dominant meta

Which is why most teams wouldn't pick the same commander. Promotes game diversity and limits cheese.

Side note: No one feels bad for people who play 4v4 random.

I see. I would certainly work if everyone got along well and played in a team like yourself. I wish this was the case as it would make large gamemodes far more balanced and entertaining but it's just not reality.

Although I have to disagree with you on your side note. I'm sure 4v4 randoms do feel sorry for themselves and I'm pretty sure they make up more of the 4v4 players than the arranged teams.

Can we also please look into the OKW's Schwerer Panzer Headquarters and the Bofors?

Compared to a Bofors, it has much higher value and greater risk when it comes to deploying.

Canceling a truck will lose you the manpower and fuel you put into purchasing the truck. Having it destroyed after you put it down literally puts you in the stone age (huge resource setback and blocks off an entire tier).
A bofors can be canceled for a full return of resources and losing it is not the end of the world as it does not block off any tiers. In some games, multiple bofors are built (one at each major point such as a VP or fuel point).

You can't even force it to target a specific unit. One of the worst things I have seen is a tank run up to the HQ to soak whatever the little damage it does while Penals run up to it and throw a few satchel charges at it (or soviet/usf engineers with demo bombs).
Bofors on the other hand, does consistent damage against medium tanks and can kill a pz4. You can use a Stug for example, but the bofors can brace to buy a lot of time for AT to reach up (something you cannot do with the hq).

The bofors easily kills infantry and light vehicles with minimal effort and can thwart multiple infantry squads attacking from different directions by rapidly killing them and allowing the player to manually target and shoot specific squads (kill the one thats about to throw a flame nade etc).

HQ is much more susceptible to indirect fire.

The only thing the hq offers over a bofors is suppression. But, why suppress when you can shred infantry?

Bofors offers too little reaction time. Ever sent in a luchs or a flame halftrack and had it destroyed within 3-5 seconds? Any light vehicle that meets the hq has ample time to reverse/change their path.

Last, but not least, the hq is much more forgiving if an enemy unit's retreat path is in range. Bofors will straight up wipe a full squad (or multiple smaller squads) on retreat because pathing algorithm picks the shortest path (which sometimes happens to be the most deadliest).

I am not saying we should make the HQ like the bofors since HQ's are typically built further back from the front lines. I just want to see the both of them looked into.

I also posted this on Reddit (hopefully we will get some more opinions): https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/691v1k/does_the_okws_schwerer_panzer_headquarters_need/

The bofors is also not free. Or 0 pop. The hq is still very good at wiping retreating infantry in my experience and can penetrate allied mediums decently. Odd that it can't be manually targeted, but again, it's free. In team games, having four trucks on the ground really does close off large portions of the map to flanks, even if they are made fairly far off the front lines, unless you constantly pound them with indirect fire. Let's not forget that sturmpios have easily the fastest repair speed in the game, further increased by veterancy and/or sweepers (but it does hurt a lot when they randomly get wiped by a stray mortar shell).

I do feel like making superheavies like kt, jagdtiger, and elefant one time only call-ins would help, as attacking them with said crazy all-in medium pushes would actually be worth it. I guess you could do the same to kv2, is2, and other super heavy allied tanks, but they never really get used. Pershing and croc too maybe. A lot of times, in games going 40+ mins, I'll float 400+ fuel as okw just because I have tanks (kt or jt) that so rarely die that my fuel never gets spent, as opposed to mediums that eventually do get picked off one by one. Then, when they do die, the axis player (me or otherwise) will just call in another and "lol", while the allies scramble to make more mediums to replace their losses. It'd be like if there was some one man squad that had the same health of all the guys in a five man squad. 0 manpower bleed.

TL; DR, it should be punishing to lose a superheavy.

the hell am i reading....lefh to counter katyushas? KT one time call in? no wonder Smith ignores most of you and i dont blame him.

...

Ok, from a 2v2 perspective

Walking stuka:
If you want to make it more usefull in 1s and not so powerfull in teamgames move it to t4 and add mortar ht in a t2. Therefore there will be a earlier counter to units in buildings and support weapon spam (effective but not insta wiping entire army). Stuka would be a more powerfull but harder to get arty for the later game.

Calliope:

Can't you just make it like Sturmtiger? Cannot move while reloading (and reload must be order manually) other option is to for example decrease the armor while firing and put it behind tech. Problem with this unit is that hard to counter, cannot be counter by barrage, dive is risky becouse of high HP of a unit, ju87 loiter won't kill it in 1 volley (you may say it cheese and abusing but this combo flare and loiter is enough ammo investment - and also need a good cooperation). Changing it to katiusha type of fire won't hurt also.
Not saying all changes must be done in same time but there are best options imo.


Firefly and JP4s are okish imo, remember those units can be easily flanked and you already made changes in cammo system. Tulips costs 100 ammo so it's fair that they can immobilize the tank for a sec.


I would argue if JT/Elefant changes are really needed. Topic is deliberated


Aura effects
We should remove/reduce the effect of the following auras on teammates:
- Soviet forward HQ (just make this ability like 3CPs and it will be ok)
- P4 command tank
Remember this is a teamgame, so a team gameplay, a cooperation should be rewarded, you cannot remove any buffs to your teammates becouse it kills the teamplay spirit.


Other ideas sound decent, should help but tbh if you want to make teamgames more balance just change the map pool becouse it's horrible (at least most of it).

This thread is a breath of fresh air, it's constructive, mature and respectful.

This is the way to make this game better of everyone.

Thx folks !!!

You certainly have a good reason to think I'm primarily an axis player based on my player card. I just started playing again after a 9 month Break and I'll be honest ive only played as Brits and ostheer ( my two favorite factions) since I started playing again. On the other hand I know what it was like to play USF 9 months ago and aside from the light vehicle nerfs and slight RM nerf there hasn't been many major changes.

Please try to understand that I played far more often before the WFAs and UKF were released which is why I have so many more Ostheer games than games as Allies. When I played with my friend I always had to play Allies since he was obsessed with the soviets and later the Brits. Nowadays I play axis and Allies equally depending on percent searching each side.

I feel like the majority of people on these threads are ally players but Maybe it's just a feeling... I'm looking for balance on both sides honestly. I don't think the Allies need any more nerfs except maybe a change to the way Brit mortars work.

Nine months ago was a really good time to play USF, it was OP in every game mode, not so much now. I do agree that Brit mortars need to be changed. I'd like to see the autofire range decreased to 80 for it (but at the same time, decrease the isg to 80 and down to 60 for all normal mortars) with maybe a slight buff in barrage cooldown to compensate. I'd also like to see brace go, in return for a reduction in damage from AT sources (like tanks, AT guns) and brace being replaced with a repair ability.

A better approach to Tiger II is making it mutually-exclusive with Sturmtiger/Command Panther/JT. That way the "lesser" untermensch doctrines also have some "teeth" to show in 4v4's.

I disagree with this entirely. Ostheer is stuck with far shittier tanks as their top end armor if they choose a so called "toothless" doctrine. OKW already gets vet 5, their late game power in 4v4 is silly. Tiger II should be doctrine specific, there is no reason why they can't survive with a very superior Panzer IV and Panther. Every other rare super tank in the game is specific to a doctrine.

Nine months ago was a really good time to play USF, it was OP in every game mode, not so much now. I do agree that Brit mortars need to be changed. I'd like to see the autofire range decreased to 80 for it (but at the same time, decrease the isg to 80 and down to 60 for all normal mortars) with maybe a slight buff in barrage cooldown to compensate. I'd also like to see brace go, in return for a reduction in damage from AT sources (like tanks, AT guns) and brace being replaced with a repair ability.

Hasn't USFs only had a small reduction to RM RA and a slight LV nerf? Not that's such a huge change...

Hasn't USFs only had a small reduction to RM RA and a slight LV nerf? Not that's such a huge change...

Things which are also no longer: mortar op, 2x 1919 and Stuart which render any light vehicle play useless while at the same time providing AI. Combined that with the other factions play (maxim spam/Penal spam) which also had good LV (T70/AEC) you would end games early or have a huge lead early on. If there was any late game attempt, you had CalliOP/Party Cover.

It's not rocket science that the numbers have turned around.

as someone who is in the top 50 4v4 for like 4 months, you are so wrong...

people don't use CAS, stuka loiters are also very rare.
same thing about crocodiles, brits normally go for air supremacy or arty cover.

axis is always spamming MG/mortars(leigs) then rush WM T4/stug spam and OKW goes for panthers and KT.

and in some open maps like hill 400 and steppes shit like AAHT is also used (and the thing is damn near impossible to take out before flaktruck arrive) effectively closing a big chunk of the map.

OKW lefhs are also widely used. and the thing is a direct counter to katyushas.

also, sniper spam on both sides are really effective now that all light vehicles are shit against snipers.

As someone who is in the top 10 4v4 for like half year, you are so wrong...

Mr. smith is right.

Hasn't USFs only had a small reduction to RM RA and a slight LV nerf? Not that's such a huge change...

Probably the biggest change was nerfing the mortar. Next to that was the Stuart - it was really good to counter the flamer halftrack (and most every other light vehicle) and even a player like me could keep it alive most of the game and rack up 20-30 kills. Now it doesn't do much. It might occasionally scare a flamer halftrack but won't kill it unless they fall asleep. The 20+ kills became 5-10. It does seem like the 7% nerf made some difference to rifles but it wasn't game breaking. Nerfing the mortar definitely made a difference.

I disagree with this entirely. Ostheer is stuck with far shittier tanks as their top end armor if they choose a so called "toothless" doctrine. OKW already gets vet 5, their late game power in 4v4 is silly. Tiger II should be doctrine specific, there is no reason why they can't survive with a very superior Panzer IV and Panther. Every other rare super tank in the game is specific to a doctrine.

But but but okw... but but...

Things which are also no longer: mortar op, 2x 1919 and Stuart which render any light vehicle play useless while at the same time providing AI. Combined that with the other factions play (maxim spam/Penal spam) which also had good LV (T70/AEC) you would end games early or have a huge lead early on. If there was any late game attempt, you had CalliOP/Party Cover.

It's not rocket science that the numbers have turned around.

Oh right! The USF mortar got nerfed! I remember some ridiculous games against USF before I stopped playing... And the m1919 limit makes a difference too. Thanks for the heads up. It's been a while...

Has 60 seconds of use, during this time receives planes with supplies. It has no cooldown, so in teamgames it is hight abusable. This abilities belongs to CAS comander and other commanders.

Also the planes come from the axis side, making them really hard to shot down. This promotes camping as the allies have to compromise to nigh suicide dives into enemy territory with their AA to try to shot at least some of them, dives that aren't a viable on the long run and offer very little in return

Supply drop zone planes can not be shots down.

Allied supply zone planes can not be shot down either on some map due to flight path.

But one ability needs manpower and thus acts like caches the other use MU.

Ok, from a 2v2 perspective

Walking stuka:
If you want to make it more usefull in 1s and not so powerfull in teamgames move it to t4 and add mortar ht in a t2. Therefore there will be a earlier counter to units in buildings and support weapon spam (effective but not insta wiping entire army). Stuka would be a more powerfull but harder to get arty for the later game.

Calliope:

Can't you just make it like Sturmtiger? Cannot move while reloading (and reload must be order manually) other option is to for example decrease the armor while firing and put it behind tech. Problem with this unit is that hard to counter, cannot be counter by barrage, dive is risky becouse of high HP of a unit, ju87 loiter won't kill it in 1 volley (you may say it cheese and abusing but this combo flare and loiter is enough ammo investment - and also need a good cooperation). Changing it to katiusha type of fire won't hurt also.
Not saying all changes must be done in same time but there are best options imo.


Firefly and JP4s are okish imo, remember those units can be easily flanked and you already made changes in cammo system. Tulips costs 100 ammo so it's fair that they can immobilize the tank for a sec.


I would argue if JT/Elefant changes are really needed. Topic is deliberated


Aura effects
We should remove/reduce the effect of the following auras on teammates:
- Soviet forward HQ (just make this ability like 3CPs and it will be ok)
- P4 command tank
Remember this is a teamgame, so a team gameplay, a cooperation should be rewarded, you cannot remove any buffs to your teammates becouse it kills the teamplay spirit.


Other ideas sound decent, should help but tbh if you want to make teamgames more balance just change the map pool becouse it's horrible (at least most of it).

Build isg if u need indirect fire. OKW alreday have too much tool . It should be like USF that have to give up .50 cal if it choose captain. Stuka appear in T2 is totally unresonable.

Sturmtiger

Is an over-the-top infantry killer. Has no business killing medium tanks too:
- Damage from 640 to 560
- Removed vehicle criticals
- Mutually-exclusive with KT (Abandon removed to avoid abuse)

(Sure, fuel price should go up, but that's lower priority than the stuff that makes Sturmtiger completely broken)

Has smoke, high armor and can fire through any object of the world.

A unit that can shoot through objects of the world is untouchable.

Stuka dive bomb only kills something if you are deaf or braindead - you can't use them in base anymore so there is no way to wipe a blob with it.

Damage nerf is simply stupid because the JT/elefant are suppose to counter the bullshit super-heavy with ridiculous amount of health - if you want to nerf damage, then nerf the IS2/ISU armor or health as well, or you have to decrease the reload time (it's 8 sec!! how can you not get away?)

Right now Paks/Raketens, even stuG, on top of taking 6-7 penetrated shots to kill a 1000+ health super heavy, will often bounce off too much at bad RNG, thats why you resort to the more reliable, yet extremely expensive JT/Elefant (ISU can counter infantry, these 2 heavy TD can't)

and you forgot that right now axis still need these units to push back the allies late game to win.
before Pz IV and Panther get buffed to an acceptable level of power on par with allies, so their mid game don't suck; you dont have anything to counter the extremely potent T34 spam - it's 80 fuel, come on; or in general allies medium spam until super heavy TD hits the field.
And even now you can swarm it easily with the amount of mediums you can get.

You need a good Pz4/Panther to compensate or axis will get massacre once allies get a critical mass of mediums.

Sturmtiger:
This was the only reliable blob counter for OKW against rifle/tommy blobs.
I can't say for now but MG34 still suck and there is nothing to reliably punish blobbers.
And of course, you talked about nerfing stuka so...

Do you calculate how many shoots need to kill is-2 and isu with 320 damage and 280 ?
Man even in 1v1 counter heavy tanks (like is-2) are not big problem like you write here, exept KT, who can wipe AT gun. IS-2 vs ele/jt its always are bad choice, Why ? coz cost to many and will be useles vs them.
ISU have 10 sec RELOAD time, 240 damage, same range like ele, poor penetretion, 310 armor i even dont write anything about ISU and JT. You write about shoots to kill is-2 and isu, how many shoots need to kill at front ele or JT ? I feel you whanna right about flanking, so what the problem to flank is-2 or ISU ?
ST nerfdont change this unit to infatry, but make this unit not one shoot tanks and stupid crits to them.
What now in allies late game are OP ?
You all forget about synergy and talk about unit in vacuum. Axis have pacs, raketens, medium tank destroyers, arty, shreks all this make good synergy with heavy TD.

In case anybody really wants to defend Stuka Dive Bomb check out this oldie but good thread by Mr. Smith that explains why the old Stuka Bomb ninja buff made it too good for its cost - https://www.coh2.org/topic/53665/rebalancing-the-stuka-dive-bomb

Edit - I would also like to add that Support weapons are also very difficult to dodge the Dive Bomb with when you consider the pack-up time vs. the delay of the bomb + its insane AoE + the extreme likelihood you are microing other units and can't respond instantly like the ability currently demands you too.

+1