Teamgame dominant meta

You all want better team game balance? Make maps bigger and more balanced. That's a good start, what you cant fix with unit balance can be fixed through map layout. Everyone seems to forget that map layouts make a huge impact on how factions and units play out.

This is the single biggest problem with 3v3 and 4v4 by far.

Maps like the port and Hill 400 have no business in those modes.

I don't think anyone is arguing that that the il2 precision bombing strike was fine and, if I recall correctly, Smith even stated that they might consider looking at it as well. However, there is are significant differences between the two

1) cost: the dive bomb costs 160 munition compared to 200 that the bombing run costs
2) warning: the bombing run is a lot easier to spot since it comes with flares (also the sound cue is not bugged like it sometimes happens with the stuka dive bomb where you can't hear the only warning you get). The plane also comes in from offmap and is visible.
3) damage and aoe: the aoe for the stuka close air support is a circle that has close to the same diameter as the bombing run is in length, however the bombing run is narrow and therefore also harder to use and easier to dodge

I'm not saying that either ability is fine, but there are distinct features of the dive bomb that just make it flat out better.

For most maps and situations the stuka will also hit faster than the precision bombing run will come in. The bigger the maps become, the bigger the difference will become in most cases.

I agree that the dive bomb is eay better in most situations. The point is that his most important reason would be that its an to easy counter to howies. While ill2 strike does they exact same. Also allies got mobile howitsers. Axis dont. So its way easier to take down axis howitsers since they cant even move. The fact that the dive bomb comes without flares is balanced. I agree that they should make it more expensive tough. However the whole point is that people will never stop crying about OP stuff. They almost nerfed every single unit last patches and even now people continue crying about how 'OP' things are. The fact is that half the things called OP in this discusion arent OP at all. Yes an jagdtiger can 2 shot a jackson for example. But its very easy to swarm.lets imagine the jagdtiger gets nerfed. Then the counter to t34 spam would dissepear and people would all cry about how OP t34s are. Then t34s will get nerfed. This is exactly whats happenimg atm. If we nerf things that arent overpreforming then something else will start doing it. Its the same with soviet howitser. How are you gonna counter it without a divebomb? Counter fire with axis howitsers wont be an option because allies have so much arty to take it down.

I hope no balance decisions are made from this thread. Considering most people here ranks are like a phone number. This all started because of an elephant/brumbar issue from another thread. Personally I think In all fairness rocket artillery/sim city needs to be looked at and go from there. That's what is poisoning every game

Exactly

Exactly

Rank is not really relevant, it's an argument from authority fallacy not to mention elitist.

What maters is the validity of the ideas, there has been plenty of good stuff said here.

We all thank you 1000x times mod team for your work and patience is Relic and the community but we would like some more feed back on some of the better suggestions if at all possible.

I agree that the dive bomb is eay better in most situations. The point is that his most important reason would be that its an to easy counter to howies. While ill2 strike does they exact same. Also allies got mobile howitsers. Axis dont. So its way easier to take down axis howitsers since they cant even move. The fact that the dive bomb comes without flares is balanced. I agree that they should make it more expensive tough. However the whole point is that people will never stop crying about OP stuff. They almost nerfed every single unit last patches and even now people continue crying about how 'OP' things are. The fact is that half the things called OP in this discusion arent OP at all. Yes an jagdtiger can 2 shot a jackson for example. But its very easy to swarm.lets imagine the jagdtiger gets nerfed. Then the counter to t34 spam would dissepear and people would all cry about how OP t34s are. Then t34s will get nerfed. This is exactly whats happenimg atm. If we nerf things that arent overpreforming then something else will start doing it. Its the same with soviet howitser. How are you gonna counter it without a divebomb? Counter fire with axis howitsers wont be an option because allies have so much arty to take it down.

Except T-34 spam is a counter to JT, while other stuff like SUs, IS-2, ISU and even ZiS are not.

Rank is not really relevant, it's an argument from authority fallacy not to mention elitist.

What maters is the validity of the ideas, there has been plenty of good stuff said here.

We all thank you 1000x times mod team for your work and patience is Relic and the community but we would like some more feed back on some of the better suggestions if at all possible.

+1000

Maybe rank as is isnt relevat, but still feedback from top 10 player like luvnest or devm is far more valuable than from someone eho doesnt even visible his own playercard.

Just saying

Cleaned up a few off topic posts and follow up posts. Try not to burn down the barn, if you can help it.

Rank is not really relevant, it's an argument from authority fallacy not to mention elitist.

What maters is the validity of the ideas, there has been plenty of good stuff said here.

We all thank you 1000x times mod team for your work and patience is Relic and the community but we would like some more feed back on some of the better suggestions if at all possible.

Rank is entirely relevant. It's a reflection of knowledge and experience. It's also a pretty good reflection of actual interest in balance.


If a doctor says "You have diabetes, you need a lifestyle change" and a fortune teller who sells chocolate says "nah, you need more chocolate", you take the doctor's opinion.

Rank > "I am human and deserve an opinion!"

Rank is entirely relevant. It's a reflection of knowledge and experience. It's also a pretty good reflection of actual interest in balance.


If a doctor says "You have diabetes, you need a lifestyle change" and a fortune teller who sells chocolate says "nah, you need more chocolate", you take the doctor's opinion.

Rank > "I am human and deserve an opinion!"

I don't see highly ranked people spamming 4v4's.

Nor do I see many 4v4 matches end with 'connection lost'.

Except T-34 spam is a counter to JT, while other stuff like SUs, IS-2, ISU and even ZiS are not.

There are a lot of other ways to counter it man.

btw another solution for team games

give Volks as first squad instead of sturm pio

Thats it.

There is no such strong early push - no kubel spam..

The people who are saying rank isn't relivant and supporting such claims are he 4v4 randoms who have a phone book long rank. Those who don't adjust strats, as well as the obvious, lack of synergy within the team.

It does matter. In fact it's extreamly important, you think someone who doesn't know the core mechanics of the game such as stopping a tank before it fires, or that cover is directional, for example; should have a balance opinion?

Yes and no, everyone has the right to an opinion, but the weight is very little for some.

I mean take the guy who posted about OKW sim city being worse then British sim city, like yea that's an opinion, but those who know.....know.....

The people who are saying rank isn't relivant and supporting such claims are he 4v4 randoms who have a phone book long rank. Those who don't adjust strats, as well as the obvious, lack of synergy within the team.

It does matter. In fact it's extreamly important, you think someone who doesn't know the core mechanics of the game such as stopping a tank before it fires, or that cover is directional, for example; should have a balance opinion?

Yes and no, everyone has the right to an opinion, but the weight is very little for some.

I mean take the guy who posted about OKW sim city being worse then British sim city, like yea that's an opinion, but those who know.....know.....

I am so tired of your posts, you contribute nothing to the discussion, you only put effort into derailing it. You had no knowledgable insight into teamplay balance, you only try to discourage others from making a change. I'm guessing you're scared that the game will become harder for you if they nerf some of the op axis strats. I have one request, stop posting if you dont want to contribute any valuable information on the topic.

I am so tired of your posts, you contribute nothing to the discussion, you only put effort into derailing it. You had no knowledgable insight into teamplay balance, you only try to discourage others from making a change. I'm guessing you're scared that the game will become harder for you if they nerf some of the op axis strats. I have one request, stop posting if you dont want to contribute any valuable information on the topic.

Sometimes recognizing a bad idea for a bad idea is the most valuable contribution that can be made. Especially in atmosphere of extensive confirmation bias.