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Vanilla factions´s repair rate

27 Apr 2017, 08:51 AM
#21
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1138 | Subs: 2



Sturmpios cost 50% extra MP. Therefore, they should repair 50% faster.


Weeell, I guess "normalizing repair speed by MP cost" sounds like an objectively correct thing to do, but I don't think it is.

Pioneers have different functions. They fight, build, and repair. So, with that the "50% more MP => 50% better repair" would be fair if all things (including e.g. their combat ability) would be only 50% better as well. To get there, I guess, you'd have to bump up the OH pioneers DPS even more...

Now, you can argue that repair speed would be mostly relevant at later stages of the game where maybe combat efficiency is less relevant for Pioneers, fair enough. And of course the different builder units have different functions within their factions and so on.

So, I'm not saying that the values you suggest wouldn't work. But I'm not a fan of normalizing for the sake of normalizing a) because normalizing often is more tricky than simply looking at the MP costs and b) the different mechanics and synergies within and between factions. So, IMHO "normalizing" shouldn't be a justification by itself...
27 Apr 2017, 09:19 AM
#22
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

I would be carefuld with nerfing WFA rep speed.

The adwantage with EFA pios is that they are ass-cheap. you can use them in lategame to harrass, cap, scout and build stuff. The investment in a sturmpio is huge for OKW. and in long games you have to do it already anyway.

i would also suggest the minesweeper to buff the EFA sappers a bit, but not too much. Maybe like 20-30%
27 Apr 2017, 09:43 AM
#23
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

I would be carefuld with nerfing WFA rep speed.

The adwantage with EFA pios is that they are ass-cheap. you can use them in lategame to harrass, cap, scout and build stuff. The investment in a sturmpio is huge for OKW. and in long games you have to do it already anyway.

i would also suggest the minesweeper to buff the EFA sappers a bit, but not too much. Maybe like 20-30%


Sappers and REs are not cheap lol? That is why Smith suggested a 50% faster repair rate for Sturmpioneers since they cost 50% more.
27 Apr 2017, 10:13 AM
#24
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1



Sappers and REs are not cheap lol? That is why Smith suggested a 50% faster repair rate for Sturmpioneers since they cost 50% more.


i wanted to express they are cheap like hell, unlike the sturmpio
28 Apr 2017, 13:02 PM
#25
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



Sappers and REs are not cheap lol? That is why Smith suggested a 50% faster repair rate for Sturmpioneers since they cost 50% more.


Could we pay 50% more to upgrade RE's to an equally effective combat unit to the Sturmpios, one that can lay mines, make heavy barbed wire, get a no-side-tech-cost shrek, and put away mine sweeper when not needed?
28 Apr 2017, 14:18 PM
#26
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2017, 13:02 PMGrumpy


Could we pay 50% more to upgrade RE's to an equally effective combat unit to the Sturmpios, one that can lay mines, make heavy barbed wire, get a no-side-tech-cost shrek, and put away mine sweeper when not needed?

"Elite rear echelons" lol. There was if I'm not mistaken an automatic m1 carbine in very limited use at the end of the war. But that would never happen, and it'd just be odd. On sturmpios though, I don't think that the best combat engineers in the faction with the heaviest heavy tanks should be able to repair said tanks in the time it takes me to repair a Sherman.
28 Apr 2017, 14:21 PM
#27
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


"Elite rear echelons" lol. There was if I'm not mistaken an automatic m1 carbine in very limited use at the end of the war. But that would never happen, and it'd just be odd. On sturmpios though, I don't think that the best combat engineers in the faction with the heaviest heavy tanks should be able to repair said tanks in the time it takes me to repair a Sherman.


Me neither. Although the sherman can repair itself..
28 Apr 2017, 14:33 PM
#28
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Me neither. Although the sherman can repair itself..

Yeah. But still.
28 Apr 2017, 16:07 PM
#29
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2017, 13:02 PMGrumpy


Could we pay 50% more to upgrade RE's to an equally effective combat unit to the Sturmpios, one that can lay mines, make heavy barbed wire, get a no-side-tech-cost shrek, and put away mine sweeper when not needed?


Dude REs can get double zooks just like Spios get the Shrek. They also get a fifth man at vet 3 and can build fighting positions to throw nades out of. They also get tank traps for green cover.
28 Apr 2017, 17:01 PM
#31
avatar of ROMEAT

Posts: 69 | Subs: 1

Soviets have some doctrinal repair options like cheap self-repair or cons repair kit or repair stations. Ost has nothing but pioneers, and this is the problem imo
28 Apr 2017, 18:24 PM
#32
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2017, 17:01 PMROMEAT
Soviets have some doctrinal repair options like cheap self-repair


That one is deceptively cheap. I never understood why it cut down your muni income by half for the duration of the ability and for each instance you are using it.
28 Apr 2017, 18:36 PM
#33
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



That one is deceptively cheap. I never understood why it cut down your muni income by half for the duration of the ability and for each instance you are using it.


Me neither man, feels gimmicky.
28 Apr 2017, 18:55 PM
#34
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2017, 17:01 PMROMEAT
Soviets have some doctrinal repair options like cheap self-repair or cons repair kit or repair stations. Ost has nothing but pioneers, and this is the problem imo


Let's not forget that higher-quantity paper-armour tanks take damage in more consistently, hence require more time to repair.
28 Apr 2017, 19:58 PM
#35
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

Be fine with OKW keeping the Sturm pioneers repair rate while toning down the Mechanized Truck repair rate given they're expensive and have high pop cap. I would argue keeping RE repair rate the same due USF having paper tanks with only the Pershing being it's sole heavy medium tank and a high repair rate would compensate for their fragile tanks. UKF definitely need to be toned down however I'm not certain about Anvil as the Churchill being a meat shield needs to have high HP to be good as it's sole job so Sappers need the repair speed to keep it operational.
29 Apr 2017, 06:49 AM
#36
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Be fine with OKW keeping the Sturm pioneers repair rate while toning down the Mechanized Truck repair rate given they're expensive and have high pop cap. I would argue keeping RE repair rate the same due USF having paper tanks with only the Pershing being it's sole heavy medium tank and a high repair rate would compensate for their fragile tanks. UKF definitely need to be toned down however I'm not certain about Anvil as the Churchill being a meat shield needs to have high HP to be good as it's sole job so Sappers need the repair speed to keep it operational.


In case you forgot,their tank crews can repair crits and their own tanks.
30 Apr 2017, 22:06 PM
#37
avatar of Kermitjames

Posts: 34



In case you forgot,their tank crews can repair crits and their own tanks.


Yeah once the tank reaches vet 3, plus they can only repair outside of engies due to a very expensive commander ability that renders the tanks inoperable.
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