1.3 GCS - Maxim Feedback

When I talk about garrison it is not a pure balance issue but map/balance issue. Some maps have vital houses some do not.

(late game performance of OKW is rather irrelevant here since we are talking about map related issues)

Having a Maxim that is too strong when in garrison will make Soviet (or Soviet T2) a very map depended faction, and that is bad design.

As I said before in my opinion Maxim is too strong when in garrison and changes should be made to either nerf the maxim when in garrison or buff the tools available to axis to deal with it.

The maxim is no stronger in garrison than any other MG. You just want to keep maxim weak. You're not accepting that Relic has imposed strict scope changes so Soviets need help from their maxims (currently).

The maxim is no stronger in garrison than any other MG. You just want to keep maxim weak. You're not accepting that Relic has imposed strict scope changes so Soviets need help from their maxims (currently).

Maxim is one of the strongest hmgs in garrison because of price/squad size/ability and available counters.

You are entitled to your theory of me being a part of international conspiracy to keep Soviets weak.

Scope includes nerfing the maxim/maxim spam.

Maxim is one of the strongest hmgs in garrison because of price/squad size/ability and available counters.

Price: Unlikely to change at all.
Squad size: In garrison... really?
Ability: Nerfed in this patch, in order to reduce Maxim spam. Therefore irrelevant.
Available counters: Flame name on vanilla volks + flanking. ISG. Kubel kiting + Sturmpio flank. These seem strong to me - could be L2P issue

You are entitled to your theory of me being a part of international conspiracy to keep Soviets weak.

Not theory anymore due to facts laid out above.

Scope includes nerfing the maxim/maxim spam.

Already accomplished - you are pushing for harder nerfs.

That was what our initial design looked like. To quote somebody from the official forums:
"[Maxim] from my testing like hot trash.... If we took cons, made them an MG but took away anything remotely useful we would have the current maxim's preformance"

This design will lead to an MG that is useless at holding any sort of territory. Long bursts means that any attempt to micro to keep targets down will make things worse for you.

Just put 5 Volks on top of one another, design a super-blob and murder the MG. Then either salvage the MG, or leave it there for your opponent to recap so that they bleed more MP.

Similarly, for OST forget about the mortar or combined arms. Just send a single 240MP Grenadier squad to riflenade the Maxim; no need to flank. Then, upgrade LMGs and murder all conscripts.

Given that we don't know when, and if ever, Conscripts enter scope, the Maxim should be able to perform as a suppression platform.

Could you not increase its area suppression? I know we run the risk of making it into an MG42 but an mg is and mg, and soviets need it.

Could you not increase its area suppression? I know we run the risk of making it into an MG42 but an mg is and mg, and soviets need it.

We did.

Improving AoE suppression alone solves the anti-Volks-megablob problem.
However that won't solve the Grenadier yolo-riflenade issue.

Thus, we had to increase both the AoE suppression and the baseline suppression.

Price: Unlikely to change at all.

Did not ask for change in price, I pointed out that it is too cost efficient when in garrison

Squad size: In garrison... really?

Yes really. See how tommies in green cover can counter a HMG-42/HMG-34 in garrison and try the same vs a maxim and you will understand why.

Ability: Nerfed in this patch, in order to reduce Maxim spam. Therefore irrelevant.

The ability is not a nerf contrary to what you think it is a change of role from a mainline infantry substitute to real HMG. Now if you actually test the ability you will see that it help the maxim to pin faster.

Available counters: Flame name on vanilla volks + flanking. ISG. Kubel kiting + Sturmpio flank. These seem strong to me - could be L2P issue

Now check how much time OKW have to spend with flame grenade or how many resources they need to spend to gain access to it.

ISG not only it one of indirect fire weapon that takes the longest to hit the field it also expensive and worse vs garrison than most.

Kubel+ST mean that maxim player simply need to micro his maxim to counter...


Contrary to what you claim Maxim is on of the strongest hmg when in garrison in GCS.

Not theory anymore due to facts laid out above.

Already accomplished - you are pushing for harder nerfs.

I see no real point in debating with someone who sees international conspiracies, so I will simply avoid responding to you. Have a good day and good luck chasing the conspirators.

That's a graceful way to concede, I must admit.

We did.

Improving AoE suppression alone solves the anti-Volks-megablob problem.
However that won't solve the Grenadier yolo-riflenade issue.

Thus, we had to increase both the AoE suppression and the baseline suppression.

Even with the Yolo-epic-super maxims we have now Grens can still get off a cheeky rifle-nade. The thing is the maxim being a six-man crew can normally survive it. If you place the maxim in the open or in a crater they spread out and the rifle nade does fack all.

I don't think the rifle-nade is a problem, in fact I think it's nullified with proper maxim placement. Creating proper play and counter playzzzzzz

I guess there can only be volks megablobs and yolo riflenades to be taken into account when looking at the soviet maxim...?

Suddenly riflenades becoming an issue like Ostheer ever had issues with Soviet maxim spam. I mean, are ya'll trying to keep maxim spam viable or what?

We did.

Improving AoE suppression alone solves the anti-Volks-megablob problem.
However that won't solve the Grenadier yolo-riflenade issue.

Thus, we had to increase both the AoE suppression and the baseline suppression.

Why not reduce to a 4 member crew but with the amount of HP that would have a 6 men crew.
That will solve a yolo grenadier riflenade if your maxim is full health because you will not loose a member so you can get back and heal with no MP cost.

And with 4 member crew, the OST have a better counter with snipers. and OKW with jaeger infantry can snipe models while in cover.

Regarding the maxim ability, it could be timed sight increase for ammo.

Now off topic: Since you are "balancing" some units (that I really appreciate your effort), are you guys considering in any modification to Calliope? In my oppinion the amount of rockets per barrage is too high and makes it hard to dodge even for mobile infantry. In my oppinion the amount of rockets fired (overall after all barrages are fired) should remain but, i think it could have more barrages with less rockets per barrage so the inmobile targets will receive full burst, semi-mobile weapons such as packs/mg's can have a chance to move after a few barrages, and mobile infantry wouldn't be wiped on the first barrage. Right now I think its the most dangerous wiping machine. While it remains "strong enough" so that a yolo-light tank /med tank can't try to take it down in a suicide mission as you can do vs Kats,Stuka,Pwerfer.

Why not reduce to a 4 member crew but with the amount of HP that would have a 6 men crew.
That will solve a yolo grenadier riflenade if your maxim is full health because you will not loose a member so you can get back and heal with no MP cost.

And with 4 member crew, the OST have a better counter with snipers. and OKW with jaeger infantry can snipe models while in cover.

Wouldn't this result in maxim crews having 4 models with only 25% health left? That will still mean a certain death for the maxim...

I still don't get why you guys simply didn't increase it's set up/pick up time slightly, slightly decrease its first burst suppression and increased the firing arc a bit. There we go, no more a-moving maxims.

It feels so useless now lol, like a 6 men mg34

The one nice thing about the new Maxim is that its DPS is unchanged so even if squads do try to YOLO charge it they usually take enough damage to force a retreat even if the suppression doesn't kick in fast enough.The Maxim is viable in that it does what it needs to do as a MG but it feels lackluster because A-moving Maxims was Soviets last real crutch/equalizer. Hard to say if its a Maxim problem or a more global Soviet problem now that you can't crutch on Flamer Penals/Guards/T70 as much previously. It's that blurry line between #Adapt and "Man Soviets are screwed now"

Was it a design choice to nerf Soviets out of the game? I started to main them recently and it just feels like it's been nerf after nerf. It was already hard enough keeping up with the Axis late game without every advantage they have taken out of the game.

if you guys are going to nerf the maxim into oblivion, couldn't you at least remove the stupid "vehicle" movement it has? It is the ONLY unit in the game that move like that, exactly like the WM bike in vcoh.

Also the crews need to be forced for spacing, if you set the maxim near any cover the 5 men all hug togheter and one AoE kills everyone.

also the deathloop is still an issue, no other MGs suffer from that, and since all the "perks" that maxim had are being removed, all the downsides needs it too.

I don't like giving feedback often because I'm kinda bad, but I don't see much in terms of productive conversation around this unit. That's not to say there isn't any, but less than I would hope.

I find it obnoxious how much the soviet faction relies on their machine gun, and how undeniably good it is at forcing squads to retreat right off the bat. My opinion would be to leave the MG mostly as is, with a nerf to far range suppression that would improve with vet (vet 2 maxim = current suppression far).

...couldn't you at least remove the stupid "vehicle" movement it has? It is the ONLY unit in the game that move like that, exactly like the WM bike in vcoh.

also the deathloop is still an issue, no other MGs suffer from that...

I actually agree with this, or at least the cherry-picked parts. I can understand not fixing the motorcycle pathing before when its set-up time was short as hell, but now that extra second or two is killer.

Wouldn't this result in maxim crews having 4 models with only 25% health left? That will still mean a certain death for the maxim...

I believe his concept would leave them at worst 33% health each, which is 40 health for them and half health of normal models - given that 6 members have 480 health in total, so dividing 480 health into 4 men would be 120 each.

I don't like giving feedback often because I'm kinda bad, but I don't see much in terms of productive conversation around this unit. That's not to say there isn't any, but less than I would hope.

I find it obnoxious how much the soviet faction relies on their machine gun, and how undeniably good it is at forcing squads to retreat right off the bat. My opinion would be to leave the MG mostly as is, with a nerf to far range suppression that would improve with vet (vet 2 maxim = current)

Nice idea!!! Simple and beautiful !

Nice idea!!! Simple and beautiful !

No offense intended, but didn't you make that whole thread about leaving?