Can you please fix the Russian Sniper RELIC?!?

why not make the German sniper a 2 man squad? and also give him a nifty abilities. Russian ones have the flare. what does the German has? a vet shitty pin? how about old vcoh camouflage but shooting is denied?

Either give the Germans 2 men or even it out by taking 1 man away from soviets.

But the beauty of coh is its asymetrical balance.

Soviet infantry is already quite weak compared to its ostheer equivalent in my opinion. The soviet sniper is a tool to balance that, but if it would die instantly its an immediate gg for the soviet player almost.

That doesnt mean that the soviet sniper is hard to kill, one well placed riflenade or pg flank is all it takes. Or just a lucky rush with a 221 will do the trick a lot of the time.

But the beauty of coh is its asymetrical balance.

Soviet infantry is already quite weak compared to its ostheer equivalent in my opinion. The soviet sniper is a tool to balance that, but if it would die instantly its an immediate gg for the soviet player almost.

That doesnt mean that the soviet sniper is hard to kill, one well placed riflenade or pg flank is all it takes. Or just a lucky rush with a 221 will do the trick a lot of the time.

Asymmetrical balance? A pipe dream. Best we can do is hope for a moderately close faction list. But Snipers as currently concieved are NOT balanced.

make the german sniper 120HP so it can take 2 shoots from soviet sniper and make no mortar or non-doctrinal tanks could one-shoot kill him

Asymmetrical balance? A pipe dream. Best we can do is hope for a moderately close faction list. But Snipers as currently concieved are NOT balanced.

So you would like both factions to have the same units? whats the point of different factions then?

You have to look at the whole picture, you can't just balance the soviet sniper only to the ostheer sniper. You have to look at the whole picture of the different army types. In a game like this, even small changes can have a very big impact on the gameplay.

If you make the german sniper 2 man, it can just snipe away without the risk of being instantly lost. This means that conscrips, that have to stall out in cover at long range against grens, will suddenly become almost useless.

The current role of the ostheer sniper is getting rid of high value targets like shocktroopers, guards, and maxims. The role of the soviet sniper is to kill the ost infantry, protected by a conscript meatshield. And i think those roles are fine the way they are.

clicked reply instead of edit, my bad

I was actually in this game supporting the sniper spammer with support weapons, AT guns, MGs (your's included), Mortars, and ATGs. On the Contrary we were playing together you and NTD on the other hand were not. The two of you decided to separate forces with you taking the right or my left and NTD taking the Left or my Right.

I think we can all agree that sniper spam is probably best handled together and not necessarily separated forces. I do not recall you building SCs however NTD did build them. In almost every engagement you were fighting both of us, on the flip side on every engagement on your end we were always fighting one of you at a time never really both, or one was negated by the onslaught of MG's (2) but I was deadly with my mortar and the snipers to at least force a retreat so any engagement wasn't really more then a few seconds, and it overall disrupted DGN and NTD's Coordinated efforts.

Hahah "Maxim High Value" You'd literally have to kill 24 of them to break even on Sniper cost.

Hahah "Maxim High Value" You'd literally have to kill 24 of them to break even on Sniper cost.

High value doesnt always mean high reinforce cost. It can also mean getting rid of, or forcing to move a unit that is a problem to you and cannot easily be dealt with otherwise.

Hahah "Maxim High Value" You'd literally have to kill 24 of them to break even on Sniper cost.

18 actually 240/2 = 120/6 = 20 360/20= 18 that is manpower cost though. Map control is a much better scale of if a unit is good or not. Even with that it isn't done in a vacuum it is the total combined arms and how they are used. I've seen the German sniper be used pretty well in the late game in 1v1's. Would you rather have an unvetted gren vs. vet 2 and 3 units or a sniper?

I'm a midlevel player (COH1 level 11) and I don't see the differences in the two snipers as a problem. If I was to buy a german sniper, its primary purpose would be to take out elite infantry, and assist in large assaults (taking shots from well behind the front lines). I'm finding that snipers in general are vulnerable enough to regular squads that I don't need to stress about getting a countersnipe off.

I do think that snipers in clown cars are annoying simply because I don't see snipers being able to shoot accurately out of a moving vehicle as believable. Would like to see snipers not allowed in clown cars OR have their accuracy severely adjusted (to something in the range of 25%) while in-car.

Someone noticed the fact, german sniper in game not shoot vs 4 models squad as the RUS counterpart? The rate of fire difference almost unoticed WM and RUS sniper, for me, ingame... I think the target squads 4/6 difference is 150%, but the rate of fire? I see old Coh2 stats website, WM a bit faster in theoretical, but in real game, i dont feel that, what i read in stats, but not work in the game, i try vs AI both sniper, the WM sniper shoot 20x in 2minute 8 sec, and same range, the RUS sniper team shoot same neutral house with attack move 20x in 2min 13 sec. So i think, the rate of fire difference is not enough, 20 shoot WM sniper 2'08 vs RUS 2'13 is not 150% difference...

Either give the Germans 2 men or even it out by taking 1 man away from soviets.

Relic can't just make a simple change like this. The German sniper already has some unique advantages over the Soviet one: better cloaking, better rate of fire and accuracy. Simply adding a 2nd entity or deleting one of the Soviet ones wouldn't balance anything. It would be like Soviet players crying for the Maxim to have the same firing arc as the MG42.

I don't see any balance issue with this anyway. Soviets have to commit to T1 or T2 so if you see T2, you can use a sniper without any concern of being countersniped the whole game. Sniping 6 man squads can take longer than 4 man but they're still incredibly good vs. shock troops and Guard. In team games, it isn't this simple but 1v1 is the standard for game balance. Each of the support teams has these little pros and cons. Personally I think Ostheer has the edge in a better HMG and mortar and Soviet has the edge in a more survivable sniper.

On another note in general, not directed at the OP as I don't know his MP habits, but
I wish more people in balance threads would play both factions more - or
at least 66/33%. Before complaining about something being OP you should
at least be using it yourself and still finding it OP. Makes for less bias and tunnel vision.

The German sniper's rate of fire is not an advantage - it's to level the field for the fact that he's firing at 50% bigger squads, combat engineer excluded.

I've seen "accuracy" toted around several times but have yet to see any noticeable difference between them. Each occasionally misses a shot but both seem to hit an extremely high amount of the time, buildings excluded which is a whole separate issue.

They both cost the same and both can arrive in about the same window, so the end result is simply:

Sov sniper - sprint, flare, much higher survivability due to 2 model, good unit synergy. High-ish risk, high reward potential due to more expensive kills.

German sniper - holds cloak while moving out of cover for a second or two, armor bonus that is random chance to avoid damage. Very high risk, medium-ish reward due to low value targets.


You don't really have to look much further than the fact that nobody builds the Ost sniper in tournaments or casual player, whereas Sov sniper is extremely common especially in team games.

I like it the way it is. The german sniper has some nifty advantages, like it remains cloaked for a short while after leaving cover and the faster rate of fire (which I definitely notice).

The old mechanic of countering snipers with more sniper was stupid tbh. It is a recipe for snowballing. I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible to kill a sniper with your own sniper, but it shouldn't be the most effective way of handling it.

The question should be, is the German sniper balanced vs the soviet army, and vice versa. Not, are they balanced vs each other.

I felt their abilities should have been switched. Give the german sniper sprint since he is so vulnerable and needs to get away. Give the soviet sniper that other weird ability that never works since its a 2 man squad...

Personally don't see the problem at all. German sniper doesn't get built because the current meta gives plenty of anti-inf options to germany as is.

However vs two Russian sniper squads in a 1v1 I've found that building a sniper of your own allows you to win the manpower war by consistently picking off the 2nd man.

The difference in the snipers is fun and interesting and I hope it stays FOREVER.

I was a spectator of this very match (which was late last evening broadcast over Twitch) so I'll comment:

Snipers in scout cars, if macroed, can't be countered. This is fact and can't just be glossed over. I've had it happen to me many times. It is UNCOUNTERABLE and DEVASTATING to the ost player. The effect snowballs rapidly because early on you have so few unit, you bleed fast and you can't get in range of the scout car to faust no matter what you do or how many "meat shield" gren squads you may have. They bleed you to death.

You guys continued playing far beyond the point the game was "over" and should have surrendered much much earlier.

Soviet MG's aren't allowed to shoot out of scout cars for a reason, neither should Soviet snipers.

To RELIC DEV's: If you think this is NOT a problem, and you clearly do not, then play a match against someone like noobelite and his partner in a 2v2 who are pro at this strategy and show us how dumb we all are. Save the replay and show us all how "counterable" this is and we will all eat cake.

My guess is you wont take that challenge because you already know the outcome. Now fix it.

I was a spectator of this very match (which was late last evening broadcast over Twitch) so I'll comment:

Snipers in scout cars, if macroed, can't be countered. This is fact and can't just be glossed over. I've had it happen to me many times. It is UNCOUNTERABLE and DEVASTATING to the ost player. The effect snowballs rapidly because early on you have so few unit, you bleed fast and you can't get in range of the scout car to faust no matter what you do or how many "meat shield" gren squads you may have. They bleed you to death.

You guys continued playing far beyond the point the game was "over" and should have surrendered much much earlier.

Soviet MG's aren't allowed to shoot out of scout cars for a reason, neither should Soviet snipers.

To RELIC DEV's: If you think this is NOT a problem, and you clearly do not, then play a match against someone like noobelite and his partner in a 2v2 who are pro at this strategy and show us how dumb we all are. Save the replay and show us all how "counterable" this is and we will all eat cake.

My guess is you wont take that challenge because you already know the outcome. Now fix it.

I would agree that snipers shouldn't be able to shoot from the scout car. It's a dumb mechanic.