Opinion on the "new" USF mortar?

The problem with the scott is while the barrage is great, it bugs out (cancels) if you stop scott at any point during the barrage -- it's not possible to fix this bug. Thus, if you start a barrage and the enemy forces you to move while barraging, you need to keep moving.

It also doesn't help that the barrage has a 60-second cooldown.

I've said my peace about the mortar, so I have to derail now. I don't see how you think the scott sucks because of a bug that doesn't even affect it's best strength. Honestly the scott is one of the shining stars of my army now. I get people doing all kinds of stupid risky crap to kill it (like overextending panthers and king tigers into m6 mines). One game I got over 80 kills with a single Scott that survived the entire game! I actually thought it was in danger of being nerfed. It does miss a lot, but keeping it behind an infantry wall is extremely effective. Once it hits it's pretty damned devastating. Sometimes on-par with the difficulty of dealing with a brumbar, but cheaper.

The barrage is pretty crappy and I really only use it when I'm desperate. It misses small targets, so it's only really useful on OKW buildings or immobilized heavies. You can even increase it's accuracy by manually targeting squads in a specific manner. When shooting at moving squads the shots will miss usually, but they will land just behind the target. So, by manually targeting a blobber's point squad, the shot lands in the middle of the blob wrecking like 5 guys at a time! I get these things to vet 3 all the time in team games. 1v1 tends to have smarter players, so you may not get opportunities to splash shots in the middle of blobs, but it still will significantly help you win infantry engagments. Each shot is like bundle grenade.

I would like to see the cooldown on the barrage released, though. The barrage sucks, but I would like to be able to use the smoke more often. Sometimes I use it to cover squads capping vp or covering teamates armor.

USF mortar appears OK to me. You have a mortar which cannot be stolen because of its pack up time and it gives you smoke if you want to avoid munitions and fuel cost. Use the unit for this function and you will be rewarded.

If you are looking for long range indirect fire try the Pak howie, still amazing.

Still lacking

USF mortar appears OK to me. You have a mortar which cannot be stolen because of its pack up time and it gives you smoke if you want to avoid munitions and fuel cost. Use the unit for this function and you will be rewarded.

If you are looking for long range indirect fire try the Pak howie, still amazing.

I think the pack howie needs either a major cost decrease or an autofire range increase, but I still love the thing.

How do you feel the new USF mortar?

I played some USF games lately and I had the feeling it couldn't hit anything in all the games I did.
.......
Now I know the USF mortar was overperforming before, I was playing intensively Ostheer during all that time but I have the impression it went from OP to useless...

It was situational before, meaning that it was really good against Ost with multiple weapon teams, and not so great against OKW. One leig pretty much hard countered a mortar if the player actively used it against the mortar.

Now it is much more situational. It still seems to hit a lot, but not kill much. The smoke is okay, probably a little more reliable than smoke from the standard Soviet mortar.

A lot of games are won through attrition. One of the key components in that is how efficient units are in terms of price, popcap, and what they actually kill. In that light, compare the new and old mortars.

Old:
260 MP, 6 popcap, 30 kills in 40 minutes
cost: 260 + 6*1.5*40 = 620
benefit: 30 * 28(average reinforce cost) = 840
ratio: 1.35 (really good)

New
240 MP, 6 popcap, 10 kills in 40 minutes
cost: 240 + 6*1.5*40 = 600
benefit: 10 * 28(average reinforce cost) = 280
ratio: 0.47 (better to build another ammo cache and possibly second RE)

I think the pack howie needs either a major cost decrease or an autofire range increase, but I still love the thing.

The autofire range on everything should be decreased. The pack howie would be okay if the attack ground range was equal to its barrage range, like every other indirect. I haven't verified it by looking at the files but it seems to be 60 for autofire, compared to 80 for the Ost motor and something like 100 for the mortar pit, leig, and 120.

If the mortar pit's autofire range was set to ~50 (along with all the other indirect), people wouldn't complain about it so much. Most people are too lazy to manually target the mortar pit. They want a set-it-and-forget-it unit with 100 range. In game, it is sometimes hard not to go off on a UKF teammate when they are just letting the thing autofire at a moving squad (effectively doing nothing) while ignoring the mg that you need moved in order to take a point. Set it to 50 and they either learn to use it or just lose a lot.

It was situational before, meaning that it was really good against Ost with multiple weapon teams, and not so great against OKW. One leig pretty much hard countered a mortar if the player actively used it against the mortar.

Now it is much more situational. It still seems to hit a lot, but not kill much. The smoke is okay, probably a little more reliable than smoke from the standard Soviet mortar.

A lot of games are won through attrition. One of the key components in that is how efficient units are in terms of price, popcap, and what they actually kill. In that light, compare the new and old mortars.

Old:
260 MP, 6 popcap, 30 kills in 40 minutes
cost: 260 + 6*1.5*40 = 620
benefit: 30 * 28(average reinforce cost) = 840
ratio: 1.35 (really good)

New
240 MP, 6 popcap, 10 kills in 40 minutes
cost: 240 + 6*1.5*40 = 600
benefit: 10 * 28(average reinforce cost) = 280
ratio: 0.47 (better to build another ammo cache and possibly second RE)

Where did you get the numbers for the rate it kills? This number would be extremely situational.

Where did you get the numbers for the rate it kills? This number would be extremely situational.

I often check kills at the end of a match. With the pre-nerf mortar, I'd get up to 30 against an Ost player in a 1v1 or 2v2. Those were the most that I would get, average numbers were probably in the 15-20 range. Against OKW the numbers were much lower and I rarely got them. On the post-nerf mortar, I don't think I've ever got more than 12. Both Ost and Okw can hard counter it if they want so it often doesn't even do that well.

Please test it yourself. If you get better results then post the replay. Maybe I haven't been using it correctly.

I've said my peace about the mortar, so I have to derail now. I don't see how you think the scott sucks because of a bug that doesn't even affect it's best strength. Honestly the scott is one of the shining stars of my army now. I get people doing all kinds of stupid risky crap to kill it (like overextending panthers and king tigers into m6 mines). One game I got over 80 kills with a single Scott that survived the entire game! I actually thought it was in danger of being nerfed. It does miss a lot, but keeping it behind an infantry wall is extremely effective. Once it hits it's pretty damned devastating. Sometimes on-par with the difficulty of dealing with a brumbar, but cheaper.

I won a 1vs1 game I was primarily losing cuz my opponent rushed my vet3 Scott with his Pz4 + Pz5 + Stuka loitering. At that time I only had 1 M36 + a zook squad. He didn't kill the Scott and I killed his 2 panzers. He was probably getting made with the Scott raping his infantry.

USF mortar appears OK to me. You have a mortar which cannot be stolen because of its pack up time and it gives you smoke if you want to avoid munitions and fuel cost. Use the unit for this function and you will be rewarded.

If you are looking for long range indirect fire try the Pak howie, still amazing.

The USF mortar is clearly a optional unit in case of HMG42 spam, and only to use smoke...

I think the pack howie needs either a major cost decrease or an autofire range increase, but I still love the thing.

I cost decrease could be cool, and also a 3 men setup or an increase in it cover defense, otherwise its a good unit.

The autofire range on everything should be decreased. The pack howie would be okay if the attack ground range was equal to its barrage range, like every other indirect. I haven't verified it by looking at the files but it seems to be 60 for autofire, compared to 80 for the Ost motor and something like 100 for the mortar pit, leig, and 120.

If the mortar pit's autofire range was set to ~50 (along with all the other indirect), people wouldn't complain about it so much. Most people are too lazy to manually target the mortar pit. They want a set-it-and-forget-it unit with 100 range. In game, it is sometimes hard not to go off on a UKF teammate when they are just letting the thing autofire at a moving squad (effectively doing nothing) while ignoring the mg that you need moved in order to take a point. Set it to 50 and they either learn to use it or just lose a lot.

AA: it's 65 for USF mortar. 80 for all normal mortars + Pack Howie. 100 for ISG/120mm. 105 vet1 ISG. 115 for mortar pit.

Barrage: 65 for USF mortar (80 on smoke on vet1). 80 for all normal mortars (which include mortar HT). 86 vet3 USF mortar. 100 for ISG/120mm. 105 vet1 ISG. 106 vet3 mortars. 115 for mortar pit. 133 vet3 120mm. 140 vet3 ISG. 160 Pack Howie. 212 vet3 Pack Howie.


-OMG that range on barrage on 120mm/ISG/Pack Howie!!11!
>>>120mm takes double the amount of xp to vet compared to normal mortars while also shooting at half the speed.
>>>ISG barrage is mostly not used unless you are countering UKF emplacements (AOE does not guarantee to use it in this way)
>>>Pack Howie only shoots 3 shells (which are great, specially at vet2) which makes it lackluster while waiting for the cooldown.

Opinion:
-USF mortar: do not spam it just like before. You are facing MG heavy strat or annoying garrison? Get one. USE THE FREAKING SMOKE, do not rely only on the HE barrage.
-USF Pack Howie: increase amount of shells and/or decrease cooldown on barrage. That's it. Oh, if min weapon crew could be set at 2, that would be great.
-OKW ISG: reduce AA range to 90, give it smoke, replace vet1 with Hollow shell mode (like changing munition with Sherman instead of it been a barrage), better AoE profile against garrison.
-UKF mortar pit: reduce aa range to 100. Give smoke at vet0. Replace garrison RoF buff bonus with "Light HE barrage" unlocked at vet1. Light HE shells are the originally beta concept. Lower damage (60), higher range (130). Reduced cooldowns on barrages.

Im not sure why you wouldnt just make usf mortar a copy of ost one....i would trade this mortar for free flame nade unlocks (with tier) anyday.. like okw gets... it also gets the additional benefit of denying cover.

its not like a t0 mortar is game breaking.. T0 AT gun isnt gamebreaking.. USF needs to go cpt for one...or go a useless doctrine..

Or maybe you could just move its range bonus vet to 2 or something. It could use some love.. the range is a joke also... a mortar without range just seems so stupid to me lmao.. even if the accuracy completely goes to shit it should still achieve greater range.

Im not sure why you wouldnt just make usf mortar a copy of ost one

That was basically the mortar before the changes.

AA: it's 65 for USF mortar. 80 for all normal mortars + Pack Howie. 100 for ISG/120mm. 105 vet1 ISG. 115 for mortar pit.

Barrage: 65 for USF mortar (80 on smoke on vet1). 80 for all normal mortars (which include mortar HT). 86 vet3 USF mortar. 100 for ISG/120mm. 105 vet1 ISG. 106 vet3 mortars. 115 for mortar pit. 133 vet3 120mm. 140 vet3 ISG. 160 Pack Howie. 212 vet3 Pack Howie.


-OMG that range on barrage on 120mm/ISG/Pack Howie!!11!
>>>120mm takes double the amount of xp to vet compared to normal mortars while also shooting at half the speed.
>>>ISG barrage is mostly not used unless you are countering UKF emplacements (AOE does not guarantee to use it in this way)
>>>Pack Howie only shoots 3 shells (which are great, specially at vet2) which makes it lackluster while waiting for the cooldown.

Opinion:
-USF mortar: do not spam it just like before. You are facing MG heavy strat or annoying garrison? Get one. USE THE FREAKING SMOKE, do not rely only on the HE barrage.
-USF Pack Howie: increase amount of shells and/or decrease cooldown on barrage. That's it. Oh, if min weapon crew could be set at 2, that would be great.
-OKW ISG: reduce AA range to 90, give it smoke, replace vet1 with Hollow shell mode (like changing munition with Sherman instead of it been a barrage), better AoE profile against garrison.
-UKF mortar pit: reduce aa range to 100. Give smoke at vet0. Replace garrison RoF buff bonus with "Light HE barrage" unlocked at vet1. Light HE shells are the originally beta concept. Lower damage (60), higher range (130). Reduced cooldowns on barrages.

Where did you get the numbers?

Also, why should the pack howie have a shorter AA and attack ground range than the ISG, which is less expensive to get and has less pop cap?

Where did you get the numbers?

Also, why should the pack howie have a shorter AA and attack ground range than the ISG, which is less expensive to get and has less pop cap?

http://stat.coh2.hu/

AA = Attack ground

The pack howie should get a lesser AA or equal to mortars cause it has an insane barrage (vet2), great normal barrage and good AoE for rof.
What the pack howie needs improvements is on the barrage deparment, not the AA.

Im not sure why you wouldnt just make usf mortar a copy of soviet one....

FTFY.

its not like a t0 mortar is game breaking.. T0 AT gun isnt gamebreaking.. USF needs to go cpt for one...or go a useless doctrine..

The mortar actually was game breaking at worst and imbalanced at best. T0 AT gun is not gamebreaking, but it really undermines the importance of teching making it awkward.

Or maybe you could just move its range bonus vet to 2 or something. It could use some love.. the range is a joke also... a mortar without range just seems so stupid to me lmao.. even if the accuracy completely goes to shit it should still achieve greater range.

Alternately, it could've feasibly stayed exactly the same, but been put into LT tier.

http://stat.coh2.hu/

AA = Attack ground

The pack howie should get a lesser AA or equal to mortars cause it has an insane barrage (vet2), great normal barrage and good AoE for rof.
What the pack howie needs improvements is on the barrage deparment, not the AA.

Doesn't AA stand for auto attack? Is that always the same range as attack ground?

For some reason, I can't load any of the GCS replays (even with the -allowincompatibleReplays). Are there any where a USF player got good use from a pack howie? It's always possible that they suck when I use them only because it is I that is using them.

buff some pack howi plz

Auto atk range 80 and 3 shot 60 sec in Barrage shot if not spotting unit
it useless

FTFY.



The mortar actually was game breaking at worst and imbalanced at best. T0 AT gun is not gamebreaking, but it really undermines the importance of teching making it awkward.



Alternately, it could've feasibly stayed exactly the same, but been put into LT tier.

It was game breaking because it was performing much better than an ost mortar... imagine if OKW had to go a certain tier for an AT gun like USF does, mechanized for example ... it would be much more awkward for them

Placing it in LT tier is even worse because it doesnt give USF a way to counter garrisons/mgs and okw still gets free nades/weapons unlock with tiers. and even with the mortar usf is still lacking with a versatile amount of units and abilities compared to the vanilla factions, lacking basic tools...

If it was just a T0 ost equal mortar it would be completely fine and not at all game breaking.

-Only now good for it's smoke, range to short.
-Cheaper now to use grenades to smoke so it's rather useless.

-Very very circumstantial.

-Will die to ennemi's mortar/LeIg the moment it's revealed. No time to pack.

Doesn't AA stand for auto attack? Is that always the same range as attack ground?

AA => Auto attack

AA range = Attack ground range

Barrage uses a different weapon profile

It was game breaking because it was performing much better than an ost mortar... imagine if OKW had to go a certain tier for an AT gun like USF does, mechanized for example ... it would be much more awkward for them

If it was just a T0 ost equal mortar it would be completely fine and not at all game breaking.

NOPE. It was practically a clone to the OH mortar. The AFK offensive stats were the same.
Differences:

-It cost +20mp but been T0.
-It had better vet1 (due to scatter reduction)
-SLIGHTLY different/better barrage. Took this from and older post: "1s faster rof but more scatter".