Opinion on the "new" USF mortar?
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
And if you say now that UC, Sturmpioneers and Kubelwagen is that mentioned counter, well then leave the current USF mortar like it is. It counters garrisons and HMG like intended but sucks vs anything else, and this is how it should be.
Just decrease the price Id say cos that mortar is definetely not worth 240MP
Posts: 493
As for the smoke I better spend muni on the nade then wait for ages when mortar's one going to be fired.
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
What Barton said.
I would only add that USF will have access to 3 indirect fire units when the M8 Scott stops sucking. There needs to be some differentiation so that we don't have cheaper units (mortars) overshadowing units that require specific tech paths (pak howitzer).
I would only maybe consider buffing barrage range. However only if officers don't come for free, and still maybe.
The USF mortar is supposed to be an early-game unit. USF problems are late-game, and USF is a problem early game. Buffing an early-game unit won't make either problem go away.
The mortar isn't really countering HMGs in building, you can smoke it yes but that's all. You need a flamer to force him to move. Cuz at this stage, every mortar can smoke and they all cost the same price but they also do much more damage.
Well this has always been my position anyway, remove the mortar, give RE flamer upgrade and remove the 5th men vet3.
So don't get me wrong, I'm not really sad with the mortar position today. Just that it's stupid to have on the roster a unit that doesn't do anything except smoke for the sake of the balance.
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The Scott doesn't suck at all. In fact I prefer going Scott first than Sherman first because it simply much more reliable vs infantry, cost only 75 fuel (35 less than a sherman), have a defensive smoke and offensive one on different CDs. And dual Scott rape everything on feet whatever vet their are.
Posts: 28
In practice, I think the mortar is in roughly the right spot. I could see a further cost reduction or 80 range barrages, but it is basically correct. If your opponent is camping in buildings, you can force him out without a specific doctrine or spamming munitions on grenades. If your opponent is mostly mobile infantry, don't build the mortar at all.
Posts: 2885
It needs more micro than other mortars though, so don't get it if you cant keep it moving. Do mind that there is not really much need for it if you go nades.
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Enemy hmg is in building. You build mortar and click barrage on building...which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
The mortar is really good. It does perfectly what it was designed for - drops smoke and counters garrisons...For what if you don't have a flammer to burn the garrison. Smoke is a double edge sword.
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I'll keep the argument next time someone cry about HMG34 being too weak.
Why 5 months? why not 6?
Yes, this is probably the right answer, I should be calling and using it for smoke barrage first and next some extra damage it can deal on auto-fire.
The barrage isn't accurate, as I say, it wasn't able to land its shells on an big house at mid-range with vision so there is no extra damage vs garrisoned units. The unit actually is really poor vs buidling, it is just a smoke dealer as Barton mentioned it.
My argument does NOT apply to mortars, since there are no other T0 mortars in the game.
However, there are 2 other more powerful MGs in T0.
So there is absolutely no reason for the MG34 not to be T0 except for the lame excuse that OKW shouldn't be allowed to have almost all of their support weapons in T0, and keep in mind these are subpar support weapons compared to the Wehrmacht, hell the raketen is regarded as one of the worst AT guns in the entire game even because it's bugged.
I'd rather that required T1 instead of the MG, who even makes the raketen as their first unit anyhow?
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
That aside, it fits what USF should be from a faction design perspective and fills its intended role of giving USF and early team weapon/garrison counter.
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I'd rather that required T1 instead of the MG, who even makes the raketen as their first unit anyhow?
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
Pre buff penals era: i lost a 1v1 combat against a garrisoned rak. 2 shots killed 4 models, and the crew from the rak killed another model. The remaining model retreated to tell the story.
Note: for some reason, rak crew is still using Volks models at 0.85 size. A garrisoned rak could defeat a non flamer RE/CE if you try to close in.
Note2: since now you get fast faust, you don't really need an early rak nowadays.
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Pre buff penals era: i lost a 1v1 combat against a garrisoned rak. 2 shots killed 4 models, and the crew from the rak killed another model. The remaining model retreated to tell the story.
Note: for some reason, rak crew is still using Volks models at 0.85 size. A garrisoned rak could defeat a non flamer RE/CE if you try to close in.
Note2: since now you get fast faust, you don't really need an early rak nowadays.
Shame cannot be cleansed so simply
And I don't recall he was garrisoning them.
Posts: 2885
which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
For what if you don't have a flammer to burn the garrison. Smoke is a double edge sword.
It drops smoke against mgs. Against garrisons barraging is enough to counter - its a mortar after all, you just need to be closer to the building. No flamer required.
Posts: 3053
Shame cannot be cleansed so simply
And I don't recall he was garrisoning them.
The crewman seem to be weirdly good shots for a support team. On the rare occasion I fight one with < vet2 rifles, they'll sometimes kill one or two models before they retreat the thing, same story with REs.
Posts: 3053
Why does USF even need an early hard-counter to HMGs and garrisons? Cos I can't see that on UKF or OKW side too.
And if you say now that UC, Sturmpioneers and Kubelwagen is that mentioned counter, well then leave the current USF mortar like it is. It counters garrisons and HMG like intended but sucks vs anything else, and this is how it should be.
Just decrease the price Id say cos that mortar is definetely not worth 240MP
I think it was unnecessary as well, but I believe the reasoning is that usf is supposed to shine early game, but can sometimes get shut down during that phase by mg42 spam, especially on maps with lots of garrisons. Personally, my solution would have been to reduce the cost of teching nades by like 10 (maybe 15) fuel and maybe even add a wp or flame nade like volks get (wp because that seems to be an allies thing for whatever reason).
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
Well as I mean, there are those rare instances but I still can't wrap my head around it, what was your situation exactly?
Because I'd only ever make a raketen that early for like, a clown car rush, or a wcm51 rush, or a bren rush, hell if I know lol.
Ahh, the good old days of the Soviet clown car, before the Western Front Armies came into existence.
Posts: 307
Posts: 500
Still don't understand why they give USF a mortar when they already have the support gun which is already super good ? what am I missing here?
Result of massive whine just like the Pershing
Posts: 144
I can confirm this weapon is anything but useless, it sure hits stuff.
So the question is, would another USF approach be better or more effective? That imo is how you play some maps or choose to play USF in general. Mortars are now an optional unit which is a good thing in terms of balance.
...and wohoo! also didn't feel OP to me.
Posts: 85
Permanently BannedOKW has no smoke or early anti garrison. Leig is average at best, fails againt garrison and don't like to kill models, just like to do damage.
Posts: 28
which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
In my experience, the usf mortar reliably hits most buildings. Maybe it won't hit a tiny one every time, but it reliably hits most larger ones. Also, when a mortar hits a building, it always deals at least 5 damage to everyone in the building. This applies to every mortar in the game. Sure, 5 damage isn't much, but it will eventually force people to leave the building.
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