Why does USF even need an early hard-counter to HMGs and garrisons? Cos I can't see that on UKF or OKW side too.
And if you say now that UC, Sturmpioneers and Kubelwagen is that mentioned counter, well then leave the current USF mortar like it is. It counters garrisons and HMG like intended but sucks vs anything else, and this is how it should be.
Just decrease the price Id say cos that mortar is definetely not worth 240MP
Opinion on the "new" USF mortar?
10 Apr 2017, 12:16 PM
#21
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
10 Apr 2017, 12:34 PM
#22
Posts: 493
Never used, haven't started 
Any mortar is OP vs you if you are static though it's just a redundant unit for USF.
As for the smoke I better spend muni on the nade then wait for ages when mortar's one going to be fired.
Any mortar is OP vs you if you are static though it's just a redundant unit for USF.As for the smoke I better spend muni on the nade then wait for ages when mortar's one going to be fired.
mastered mode: 4v3 
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
10 Apr 2017, 12:39 PM
#23
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
What Barton said.
I would only add that USF will have access to 3 indirect fire units when the M8 Scott stops sucking. There needs to be some differentiation so that we don't have cheaper units (mortars) overshadowing units that require specific tech paths (pak howitzer).
I would only maybe consider buffing barrage range. However only if officers don't come for free, and still maybe.
The USF mortar is supposed to be an early-game unit. USF problems are late-game, and USF is a problem early game. Buffing an early-game unit won't make either problem go away.
The mortar isn't really countering HMGs in building, you can smoke it yes but that's all. You need a flamer to force him to move. Cuz at this stage, every mortar can smoke and they all cost the same price but they also do much more damage.
Well this has always been my position anyway, remove the mortar, give RE flamer upgrade and remove the 5th men vet3.
So don't get me wrong, I'm not really sad with the mortar position today. Just that it's stupid to have on the roster a unit that doesn't do anything except smoke for the sake of the balance.
---
The Scott doesn't suck at all. In fact I prefer going Scott first than Sherman first because it simply much more reliable vs infantry, cost only 75 fuel (35 less than a sherman), have a defensive smoke and offensive one on different CDs. And dual Scott rape everything on feet whatever vet their are.
10 Apr 2017, 17:26 PM
#24
Posts: 28
Enemy hmg is in building. You build mortar and click barrage on building. Enemy hmg moves or dies. You can also force hmgs to pack up when they aren't in a building, but it is a bit more rng dependent.
In practice, I think the mortar is in roughly the right spot. I could see a further cost reduction or 80 range barrages, but it is basically correct. If your opponent is camping in buildings, you can force him out without a specific doctrine or spamming munitions on grenades. If your opponent is mostly mobile infantry, don't build the mortar at all.
In practice, I think the mortar is in roughly the right spot. I could see a further cost reduction or 80 range barrages, but it is basically correct. If your opponent is camping in buildings, you can force him out without a specific doctrine or spamming munitions on grenades. If your opponent is mostly mobile infantry, don't build the mortar at all.
10 Apr 2017, 17:31 PM
#25
1 
Posts: 2885
The mortar is really good. It does perfectly what it was designed for - drops smoke and counters garrisons. Range is enough to deal with team weapons. It is also really easy to reposition and thus hard to wipe - not only can it retreat earlier than other mortars, before being rifle-naded, but also can use the quick set up time to change position and fire back when under enemy mortar fire.
It needs more micro than other mortars though, so don't get it if you cant keep it moving. Do mind that there is not really much need for it if you go nades.
It needs more micro than other mortars though, so don't get it if you cant keep it moving. Do mind that there is not really much need for it if you go nades.
10 Apr 2017, 19:04 PM
#26
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Enemy hmg is in building. You build mortar and click barrage on building...which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
The mortar is really good. It does perfectly what it was designed for - drops smoke and counters garrisons...For what if you don't have a flammer to burn the garrison. Smoke is a double edge sword.
10 Apr 2017, 19:50 PM
#27
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I'll keep the argument next time someone cry about HMG34 being too weak.
Why 5 months? why not 6?
Yes, this is probably the right answer, I should be calling and using it for smoke barrage first and next some extra damage it can deal on auto-fire.
The barrage isn't accurate, as I say, it wasn't able to land its shells on an big house at mid-range with vision so there is no extra damage vs garrisoned units. The unit actually is really poor vs buidling, it is just a smoke dealer as Barton mentioned it.
My argument does NOT apply to mortars, since there are no other T0 mortars in the game.
However, there are 2 other more powerful MGs in T0.
So there is absolutely no reason for the MG34 not to be T0 except for the lame excuse that OKW shouldn't be allowed to have almost all of their support weapons in T0, and keep in mind these are subpar support weapons compared to the Wehrmacht, hell the raketen is regarded as one of the worst AT guns in the entire game even because it's bugged.
I'd rather that required T1 instead of the MG, who even makes the raketen as their first unit anyhow?
10 Apr 2017, 20:41 PM
#28
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
I think a barrage range increase (or at least adding regular barrage to Vet 1 would help)... the reason I think it feels underwhelming currently is because it's so easy for OST mortar to out-range and counter it which can be frustrating.
That aside, it fits what USF should be from a faction design perspective and fills its intended role of giving USF and early team weapon/garrison counter.
That aside, it fits what USF should be from a faction design perspective and fills its intended role of giving USF and early team weapon/garrison counter.
10 Apr 2017, 20:46 PM
#29
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I'd rather that required T1 instead of the MG, who even makes the raketen as their first unit anyhow?
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
10 Apr 2017, 21:04 PM
#30
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
Pre buff penals era: i lost a 1v1 combat against a garrisoned rak. 2 shots killed 4 models, and the crew from the rak killed another model. The remaining model retreated to tell the story.
Note: for some reason, rak crew is still using Volks models at 0.85 size. A garrisoned rak could defeat a non flamer RE/CE if you try to close in.
Note2: since now you get fast faust, you don't really need an early rak nowadays.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Apr 2017, 21:17 PM
#31
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Pre buff penals era: i lost a 1v1 combat against a garrisoned rak. 2 shots killed 4 models, and the crew from the rak killed another model. The remaining model retreated to tell the story.
Note: for some reason, rak crew is still using Volks models at 0.85 size. A garrisoned rak could defeat a non flamer RE/CE if you try to close in.
Note2: since now you get fast faust, you don't really need an early rak nowadays.
Shame cannot be cleansed so simply
And I don't recall he was garrisoning them.
10 Apr 2017, 21:45 PM
#32
1 Posts: 2885
which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
For what if you don't have a flammer to burn the garrison. Smoke is a double edge sword.
It drops smoke against mgs. Against garrisons barraging is enough to counter - its a mortar after all, you just need to be closer to the building. No flamer required.
10 Apr 2017, 23:55 PM
#33
Posts: 3053
Shame cannot be cleansed so simply
And I don't recall he was garrisoning them.
The crewman seem to be weirdly good shots for a support team. On the rare occasion I fight one with < vet2 rifles, they'll sometimes kill one or two models before they retreat the thing, same story with REs.
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10 Apr 2017, 23:59 PM
#34
Posts: 3053
Why does USF even need an early hard-counter to HMGs and garrisons? Cos I can't see that on UKF or OKW side too.
And if you say now that UC, Sturmpioneers and Kubelwagen is that mentioned counter, well then leave the current USF mortar like it is. It counters garrisons and HMG like intended but sucks vs anything else, and this is how it should be.
Just decrease the price Id say cos that mortar is definetely not worth 240MP
I think it was unnecessary as well, but I believe the reasoning is that usf is supposed to shine early game, but can sometimes get shut down during that phase by mg42 spam, especially on maps with lots of garrisons. Personally, my solution would have been to reduce the cost of teching nades by like 10 (maybe 15) fuel and maybe even add a wp or flame nade like volks get (wp because that seems to be an allies thing for whatever reason).
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11 Apr 2017, 04:16 AM
#35
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I once lost to a guy that build Raketen that early.
Death would be a mercy compared to living with that embarassment
Well as I mean, there are those rare instances but I still can't wrap my head around it, what was your situation exactly?
Because I'd only ever make a raketen that early for like, a clown car rush, or a wcm51 rush, or a bren rush, hell if I know lol.
Ahh, the good old days of the Soviet clown car, before the Western Front Armies came into existence.
11 Apr 2017, 06:41 AM
#36
Posts: 307
Still don't understand why they give USF a mortar when they already have the support gun which is already super good ? what am I missing here?
11 Apr 2017, 11:23 AM
#37
Posts: 500
Still don't understand why they give USF a mortar when they already have the support gun which is already super good ? what am I missing here?
Result of massive whine just like the Pershing
11 Apr 2017, 11:56 AM
#38
1 Posts: 144
I think it has become a niche unit, but i faced a double mortar play and it was kinda completely devastating to my grens and mgs. Mostly playing 2v2, but it was double USF vs us as double ostheer.
I can confirm this weapon is anything but useless, it sure hits stuff.
So the question is, would another USF approach be better or more effective? That imo is how you play some maps or choose to play USF in general. Mortars are now an optional unit which is a good thing in terms of balance.
...and wohoo! also didn't feel OP to me.
I can confirm this weapon is anything but useless, it sure hits stuff.
So the question is, would another USF approach be better or more effective? That imo is how you play some maps or choose to play USF in general. Mortars are now an optional unit which is a good thing in terms of balance.
...and wohoo! also didn't feel OP to me.
11 Apr 2017, 12:05 PM
#39
Posts: 85
Permanently BannedMeanwhile,
OKW has no smoke or early anti garrison. Leig is average at best, fails againt garrison and don't like to kill models, just like to do damage.
OKW has no smoke or early anti garrison. Leig is average at best, fails againt garrison and don't like to kill models, just like to do damage.
11 Apr 2017, 17:40 PM
#40
Posts: 28
which does nothing since it miss the building and doesn't do that much damage when it doesn't miss.
In my experience, the usf mortar reliably hits most buildings. Maybe it won't hit a tiny one every time, but it reliably hits most larger ones. Also, when a mortar hits a building, it always deals at least 5 damage to everyone in the building. This applies to every mortar in the game. Sure, 5 damage isn't much, but it will eventually force people to leave the building.
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