GCS Balance Preview

Note that, unless we did something wrong, v1.3 is meant to be the final version of the mod. If you guys can get some games going let us know how the Maxim feels, etc.

We require timely feedback.



The thing is that early OKW faust was meant to come at the same time as the other light-vehicle changes that we wanted to introduce in WBP. With the early faust, OKW could feel confident spitting out Volksgrenadiers (without having to worry about pesky rakketens) rendering light vehicles (minus M20) completely useless vs OKW. This left the way wide-open for Kubelwagons.

I know that reverting the faust seems completely lame, since it makes MechHQ starts even less appealing than before. However that's the only thing we were allowed to touch from OKW (which, somehow, completely dodged infantry scaling changes in WBP, and then managed to get through GCS with the overwhelming majority of its cheese untouched). The choice was between making MechHQ less appealing, or keep light-vehicles completely unviable.

This change is meant to be interpreted side-by-side with the overall changes to Brits and, especially, Soviets.

Smith, you guys are now reproducing the problem OKW had when their faust was 35 munitions and locked behind a set up truck, meaning no effective counter to flame clown car rush.

Why the double nerf though? Why nerf its timing and its price?

GCS patch will be implemented on Tuesday. GCS is until 1 July, Soviets is the faction with the most losses and Brtitish has lost reliability of the players in GCS Placement Matches.

What do we have after?

"Fixed an issue where the firing arc of coaxial and hull MGs for British faction tanks was smaller than that of other armoured vehicles. This fix will improve the target acquisition of British tank MGs."

Does this effect AEC too?

Smith, you guys are now reproducing the problem OKW had when their faust was 35 munitions and locked behind a set up truck, meaning no effective counter to flame clown car rush.

Why the double nerf though? Why nerf its timing and its price?

I understand that nerfing cost/timing of the panzerfaust is a backwards change, however this is the only choice we were allowed to make to prevent Soviets from being a complete basket case vs OKW.

The timing is to allow Soviets to use M3 when OKW is present. Early faust means that OKW can spread far and wide without worrying about consequences.

Increased munitions cost is to mitigate OKW's late-game where they have some of the most ridiculous munitions-based (or free) abilities. The following abilities will require either a performance change or a cost increase:
- Combat Blitz
- Infiltration grenades
- Flame grenade
- Kubelwagen detection
- Jagdtiger engine upgrade
- Minesweeper upgrade
- STG upgrade

Since we cannot make OKW late-game even remotely fair in comparison to other factions (except for Croco/Firefly Brits), we were forced to restore an artificial early-game weakness.

Look through the changes in WBP/GCS and tell me which changes you would revert. This is the only choice we could make to prevent a complete OKW rofl-stomp.

"Fixed an issue where the firing arc of coaxial and hull MGs for British faction tanks was smaller than that of other armoured vehicles. This fix will improve the target acquisition of British tank MGs."

Does this effect AEC too?

All tanks, including Comet, Churchill, Cromwell, AEC, Firefly.

You won't really notice a difference on the AEC (was 5 degrees now it's 10), but you might notice a substantial change in Cromwell/Churchill MGs (some of them had 2.5 degrees).

snip

I understand it would not be possible in this patch but why not simply restore the kubel fuel cost to 5/10. The way things have been improved (and thanks to you guys) show the Kubel being much more reliable and having a greater impact over much more expensive unit that can't do shit vs it (like the RM).
I have nothing against it but put a fuel cost at least make counter such as the m20 or M3 much more appealing, knowing 2xkubel start will sustancially delay the next vehicle.

GCS patch will be implemented on Tuesday. GCS is until 1 July, Soviets is the faction with the most losses and Brtitish has lost reliability of the players in GCS Placement Matches.

What do we have after?

Sovs rip, time to learn german keepo

I understand that nerfing cost/timing of the panzerfaust is a backwards change, however this is the only choice we were allowed to make to prevent Soviets from being a complete basket case vs OKW.

The timing is to allow Soviets to use M3 when OKW is present. Early faust means that OKW can spread far and wide without worrying about consequences.

Increased munitions cost is to mitigate OKW's late-game where they have some of the most ridiculous munitions-based (or free) abilities. The following abilities will require either a performance change or a cost increase:
- Combat Blitz
- Infiltration grenades
- Flame grenade
- Kubelwagen detection
- Jagdtiger engine upgrade
- Minesweeper upgrade
- STG upgrade

Since we cannot make OKW late-game even remotely fair in comparison to other factions (except for Croco/Firefly Brits), we were forced to restore an artificial early-game weakness.

So, in your own words, you're reverting a good change to compensate for the overpowered OKW imbalance that you can't change.

I can understand the logic but surely it would make more sense to change the overpowered stuff? And if not, to leave the good change until you can fix the overpowered stuff. Yes OKW would be overpowered in the short term, but in the long term it makes it easier to pinpoint exactly what needs to be fixed in the future.

Where you blond girl ? She looks more beatiful.

Haha I like more brunettes

So, in your own words, you're reverting a good change to compensate for the overpowered OKW imbalance that you can't change.

I can understand the logic but surely it would make more sense to change the overpowered stuff? And if not, to leave the good change until you can fix the overpowered stuff. Yes OKW would be overpowered in the short term, but in the long term it makes it easier to pinpoint exactly what needs to be fixed in the future.

Faust timing was not a good change. It was a premature change.

Faust timing should have been with light vehicle changes, which had already been thoroughly tested before they became reverted.

Cost reduction worked OK for WBP. However with Brit nerfs and Soviets going out of the window, it's no longer justifiable to give everything to the OKW.

Faust timing was not a good change. It was a premature change.

Faust timing should have been with light vehicle changes, which had already been thoroughly tested before they became reverted.

Cost reduction worked OK for WBP. However with Brit nerfs and Soviets going out of the window, it's no longer justifiable to give everything to the OKW.

Dude hang in there, I (and I'm sure others) appreciate the work you, GG and Mirage are doing.

Faust timing was not a good change. It was a premature change.

Faust timing should have been with light vehicle changes, which had already been thoroughly tested before they became reverted.

Cost reduction worked OK for WBP. However with Brit nerfs and Soviets going out of the window, it's no longer justifiable to give everything to the OKW.

I wasn't so much getting at the timing as the cost, OKW snares shouldn't cost more than other factions. Again, reverting good changes to compensate for overpowered munitions abilities of the faction, in order to balance them in the short term vs Soviets and Brits.

I wasn't so much getting at the timing as the cost, OKW snares shouldn't cost more than other factions.

Look. We've already tested this in WBP, and we've already seen this in GCS. OKW's lategame is insane. Part of the reason behind the complete insanity of OKW's lategame is the insane cost-efficiency/power of their abilities.

By upping panzerfaust we are limiting access to those OP abilities. That won't stop OKW late-game from being OP as fuck. However, it will make it be a tiny bit less OP.

It doesn't take a genius to see what needs to be changed. However, for as long as Volks and OKW lategame has the potential that it currently has, I am sure they can survive 30 munitions fausts. At least they have fausts.

Bottomline:

The only reason why we touched Panzerfaust cost was because we weren't allowed to touch any of the other OP OKW abilities.

Panzerfaust cost will be restored when the OP abilities also enter scope; not before.
End of story.

Panzerfaust cost will be restored when the OP abilities also enter scope.

That's all I wanted to know.

I know that reverting the faust seems completely lame, since it makes MechHQ starts even less appealing than before.

Mech-HQ starts are not "less appealing", they are impossible to pull off, if you're not one of the top ten OKW players. Yes, I know that OKW in its current state reks almost anything, and that should of course be fixed, whenever Relic allows you to do so.

But the problem with Mech-HQ strategies is certainly not an expensive Panzerfaust ability. However, that was definitely not the focus of this patch, and thus nothing you could have changed.

GCS patch will be implemented on Tuesday. GCS is until 1 July, Soviets is the faction with the most losses and Brtitish has lost reliability of the players in GCS Placement Matches.

What do we have after?

How you know when will be patch ?

That's all I wanted to know.

then next time ask it directly. not crying for 5 ammo cost.

i think putting the faust behind a tech setup is very good.

there was no light vehicule play avaible against okw.

Dude hang in there, I (and I'm sure others) appreciate the work you, GG and Mirage are doing.

QFT

then next time ask it directly. not crying for 5 ammo cost.

Is there any need for this? I was concerned that that balance decisions were being made on the basis of short term considerations while neglecting the long term balance. I was as direct as I could have been.

Note that, unless we did something wrong, v1.3 is meant to be the final version of the mod. If you guys can get some games going let us know how the Maxim feels, etc.

We require timely feedback.



The thing is that early OKW faust was meant to come at the same time as the other light-vehicle changes that we wanted to introduce in WBP. With the early faust, OKW could feel confident spitting out Volksgrenadiers (without having to worry about pesky rakketens) rendering light vehicles (minus M20) completely useless vs OKW. This left the way wide-open for Kubelwagons.

I know that reverting the faust seems completely lame, since it makes MechHQ starts even less appealing than before. However that's the only thing we were allowed to touch from OKW (which, somehow, completely dodged infantry scaling changes in WBP, and then managed to get through GCS with the overwhelming majority of its cheese untouched). The choice was between making MechHQ less appealing, or keep light-vehicles completely unviable.

This change is meant to be interpreted side-by-side with the overall changes to Brits and, especially, Soviets.

Ok? but how is this different from Ostheer? M3 clown car rush doesn't work against Ostheer because they have the super early fausts. You don't see Ostheer getting their fausts nerfed behind their T2 building or battlephase 1. If it's because the raketen is on T0 and the pak40 is on t2 that's a rakaten issue or a pak40 issue. Is it because volks are generally more powerful than grens because of the extra man? Volks spam is one of the two only strategies you can go for as OKW which is why their fausts are so abundant. Ostheer have more options which is why this isn't an issue probably. they can get MGs, mortars, some grens, snipers, Ostruppen with doctrines. Saying that OKW fausts are to numerous early game is a poor way of saying their design sucks but we can't change it because of scope. If you want to do the munitions change to lower the usage of the faust fine but it probably won't have a large enough impact and that I agree with you on. But I still do not see a reason to allow flamecar rushes against OKW inorder to force out a raketen so OKW has 1 less fighting squad while the clown car can more or less avoid it.

EDIT:

Bottomline:

The only reason why we touched Panzerfaust cost was because we weren't allowed to touch any of the other OP OKW abilities.

Panzerfaust cost will be restored when the OP abilities also enter scope; not before.
End of story.

Obviously people have been bashing you guys for this long before I got to it. Fair enough though, make the OP faction have a true weakness till you can balance the rest of it. Everyone just needs to deal with it.