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USF vs Ost Mortar

24 Mar 2017, 01:31 AM
#1
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

It's good for the game that the USF mortar is getting nerfed. It's really annoying, wrecks games. Here's what happened when I had one of those and picked up a spare 8 cm Ost mortar that somebody forgot.



See how badly OP it is compared to the 8 cm? I kept these two near each other for the entire game.

Oh, wait......

The USF one did get wiped once which set its veterancy bonuses back but it also was usually in the slightly more favorable position because it is supposed to be better.
24 Mar 2017, 03:54 AM
#2
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

Thanks for posting this. I was worried the USF mortar was OP. But because of this finding, where there was a game in which the OH mortar did better than the USF mortar, I am no longer worried. Everything seems good.
24 Mar 2017, 04:14 AM
#3
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

Everything seems good.


Or not.

By God, they're nerfing it! Please, PLEASE, STAHP THEM! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
24 Mar 2017, 04:20 AM
#4
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508



Or not.

By God, they're nerfing it! Please, PLEASE, STAHP THEM! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!


I really don't see how I'm going to low effort win as USF without the best infantry and also the best mortar.
24 Mar 2017, 04:29 AM
#5
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

Thanks for posting this. I was worried the USF mortar was OP. But because of this finding, where there was a game in which the OH mortar did better than the USF mortar, I am no longer worried. Everything seems good.


No, genius. They should've nerfed both of them. The only stock mortar that didn't need a nerf was the Soviet one that doesn't kill anything anyway.
24 Mar 2017, 13:42 PM
#9
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2017, 04:29 AMGrumpy


No, genius. They should've nerfed both of them. The only stock mortar that didn't need a nerf was the Soviet one that doesn't kill anything anyway.




  • The USF had only slightly better stats than the Ostheer mortar. Almost everyone already knew this.
  • A sample size of one is too small for a test. If you get the chance, take a statistics class. I was a history major, but I took some basic stats and math classes, and they've been very useful for work and in life. If you studied statistics in either a class, or through an online venue, or even just reading through a text book, it's hugely rewarding. The way it helps you understand the world is invaluable.
  • A replay where we can see what happened in the game would be more useful for analysis than a screen shot where we don't know what happened.
  • You can'take compare units in a vacuum. The USF mortar was a problem because having a mortar that good gave USF too strong a roster when combined with riflemen, which were intended to be strong even without support in early game, so giving them support as well caused problems. Riflemen are fine on USF, but would be too strong if given to Ostheer. It's fine that soviets get a reinforcing halftrack, but if you gave the same halftrack to OKW, different story.

24 Mar 2017, 16:53 PM
#10
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Invissed three posts.
24 Mar 2017, 17:05 PM
#11
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

What is the point of this post OP?

The USF mortar is vastly overperforming and is being addressed next week.
24 Mar 2017, 19:24 PM
#12
avatar of Bohewulf

Posts: 82

What is the point of this post OP?

The USF mortar is vastly overperforming and is being addressed next week.



If it is vastly overperforming how can it be fixed by the very minor changes of the next patch?
24 Mar 2017, 21:05 PM
#13
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1




If it is vastly overperforming how can it be fixed by the very minor changes of the next patch?

Minor? They reduced its range, stopped it from ever OHKing full health infantry models, matched its barrage RoF to the GrW's and removed its broken vet 1 scatter reduction.

They did definitely buff it as well in other places, but those other places, aside from its cost, involve actually microing it and allied units which is worlds better than "USF builds two mortars and then every Wehr unit on foot that doesn't start moving the moment mortar pop sounds will be wiped".
24 Mar 2017, 23:14 PM
#14
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The range was reduced to 65, not the damage. Infantry entities still have 80 health and hump each other in cover and when moving around objects.
25 Mar 2017, 02:23 AM
#15
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954





  • The USF had only slightly better stats than the Ostheer mortar. Almost everyone already knew this.
  • A sample size of one is too small for a test. If you get the chance, take a statistics class. I was a history major, but I took some basic stats and math classes, and they've been very useful for work and in life. If you studied statistics in either a class, or through an online venue, or even just reading through a text book, it's hugely rewarding. The way it helps you understand the world is invaluable.
  • A replay where we can see what happened in the game would be more useful for analysis than a screen shot where we don't know what happened.
  • You can'take compare units in a vacuum. The USF mortar was a problem because having a mortar that good gave USF too strong a roster when combined with riflemen, which were intended to be strong even without support in early game, so giving them support as well caused problems. Riflemen are fine on USF, but would be too strong if given to Ostheer. It's fine that soviets get a reinforcing halftrack, but if you gave the same halftrack to OKW, different story.


You really think that most people on COH2 think that the USF mortar has only slightly better stats? According to the hyperbole, it is a heat-seeking nuclear missile.

I didn't claim this was a statistical analysis. However, if you can calculate the standard deviation for this data, then I'll be impressed.

PS - I had to take statistics classes in graduate school. If you ever want to bore the shit out of someone, talk statistics. History is more rewarding.......
25 Mar 2017, 02:58 AM
#16
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

What is the point of this post OP?

The USF mortar is vastly overperforming and is being addressed next week.


A couple of points:

1)The Ost mortar should've been nerfed also.
2)I was stirring some shit. The USF mortar is really good against people that like to camp or move large groups of infantry straight at their opponent. The other team didn't do that much, or maybe at all.
3)The win rates are fairly balanced right now. They won't be after this patch. Other than bug fixes, this patch doesn't look like it will be good for allies in 2v2 and above. Your 0.780 win rate and 15 ranking won't be in any danger, but you're going to be waiting 10 minutes to get a game and the games won't last long. The allied players that do stick around are going to double down on mortar pits, Comets, and arty cover. I'm sure it's going to be great fun.
25 Mar 2017, 03:50 AM
#17
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2017, 02:58 AMGrumpy


A couple of points:

1)The Ost mortar should've been nerfed also.
2)I was stirring some shit. The USF mortar is really good against people that like to camp or move large groups of infantry straight at their opponent. The other team didn't do that much, or maybe at all.
3)The win rates are fairly balanced right now. They won't be after this patch. Other than bug fixes, this patch doesn't look like it will be good for allies in 2v2 and above. Your 0.780 win rate and 15 ranking won't be in any danger, but you're going to be waiting 10 minutes to get a game and the games won't last long. The allied players that do stick around are going to double down on mortar pits, Comets, and arty cover. I'm sure it's going to be great fun.


+10
25 Mar 2017, 04:01 AM
#18
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

The range was reduced to 65, not the damage. Infantry entities still have 80 health and hump each other in cover and when moving around objects.

Yeah, you're right, I misread this.
81mm Mortar
...
AoE near distance reduced from 1 to 0.75 (both attack and barrage)

Still should see a pretty big improvement though, since 0.75 distance is less than an infantry model's so only godlike hits (which we should also see a lot less of with the vet 1 bonus change) in between two literally-touching infantrymen will see a maximum of two men take full damage.
25 Mar 2017, 04:17 AM
#19
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2017, 02:23 AMGrumpy

You really think that most people on COH2 think that the USF mortar has only slightly better stats? According to the hyperbole, it is a heat-seeking nuclear missile.


Hey come on man, no need to stir things up. It'a clear enough you know better than to present the argument this way. If you're trying to address hyperbole, then more hyperbole will not help. This isn't the comment section on a YouTube video. Let's not have trolls trolling trolls who troll other trolls.
25 Mar 2017, 09:46 AM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2017, 02:58 AMGrumpy

...
2)I was stirring some shit. The USF mortar is really good against people that like to camp or move large groups of infantry straight at their opponent. The other team didn't do that much, or maybe at all.
...

Or really good against people playing Wer because:
Grenadiers have to stay stationary for LMG to work.
one has to support their grenadiers with a static HMG-42.
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