Non Call-In Churchill: Most underused Brit tank

I feel like this tank needs a re-vamp before the patch hits. Give it some sort of suppression or engine dmg ability that could make it useful again, or simply re-design the way it operates on the field of battle. Thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Point Blank Engine shot would be pretty interesting on it, since it means you can't ignore the Churchill, though I feel like the insane XP bleed would still be problematic.

IMO, juggling HP/Armor and/or a cost reduction while removing the smoke speed penalty would be a good place to start.

The Churhill is only underused because the Comet is so stupid broken right now. The Churchhill is really good when you can keep it alive long enough to have two of them or support one very will with mortar pits and PAKs.

There is no reason what so ever to pick the Churhill over the Comet, unless it's some kind of big team game and you need some damage sinks, but even that is rare.

Things will be different when the Comet gets balanced. If you wanted to improve the Churchill though I would suggest remove the slow down when deploy smoke, I think that would instantly make it better.

Churchill is quite good tank actually, it can solo any other medium tank (if we agree that panther is heavy) and is good against infantry as well.

The problem is that it get eaten alive by pak stun shot and other like this abilities and then finished of by tigers.

Removing smoke dischargers handicap would be a great thing to start with.

nerf Comet from a superduper tank to a super tank ...and u will see how good the churchhill is

replace side hull gunner sten with bren or vicker K

Removing smoke dischargers handicap would be a great thing to start with.

I actually did that with a mod. There is a problem, while at full speed the smoke entities is actually spread apart and thus have some holes. However while I removed the AT gun killing grenade I replaced it with a plus one pintle mount on vet one to help fight infantry.


While the Churchills is overshadowed by the Comet remember, Anvil comes with heavy engineers to repair it and airburst shells. Additionally to fight heavies the 17lbs and Fireflies can help with that while the Churchill soaks damage.

There is no point in the Churchill when it can be penetrated by anything and spends more time being repaired than fighting.

Until it's armor is buffed and HP nerfed only cheeky people and noobs will be using it.

Imo Churchill should be closer to historical role of an "infantry support heavy tank" and should be used with infantry support.

To achieve this I would suggest 2 changes for start:

1) Move WP smoke from Comet to Churchill and reduce range to 40.
Reasons:
Comet already can easily deal with infantry and ATGs so it does not need the WP smoke. In addition that would allow the Churchill to dislodge hmgs that would pin its supporting infantry.

2) Change the "covering smoke" to actually be useful to infantry (maybe remove the speed penalty or make the speed of vehicle 4 when active).
Reasons:
Instead of vision blocker (that mostly benefit that tank itself)it should enable attack cover bonuses for infantry allowing better synergy. A similar ability is already in game in the commandos "Cover Smoke Grenade". Since this might actually be a bit strong I would start with a smoke that simply act as if the UKF infantry are in cover and they get their firing bonuses.

Imo these changes will allow the unit to be useful when used with supporting infantry.

It's only not used because the comet is basically a m1a1 abrams in this game for some reason. Also Cromwell spam is effective, there's just better options

I feel like this tank needs a re-vamp before the patch hits. Give it some sort of suppression or engine dmg ability that could make it useful again, or simply re-design the way it operates on the field of battle. Thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

I think, this tank need something like ZiS/Su76 barrage.

I think, this tank need something like ZiS/Su76 barrage.

Giving a tank a barrage make little since. Moving the WP smoke from Comet to Churchill makes more sense achieves a similar result.

Churchill is fine. Its like a super Tiger for the Brits.
The problem why you dont see them in the field is because of the Cromwell and Comets that are more cost-effective.

There's no way additional non-bug-related changes can be piggybacked on top of WBP. Especially ones that are out of scope.

Arguably, the reason why nobody goes for Churchills is because:
- Ostheer T3 is the way to go
- Comet is insanely OP and seal-clubs Ostheer T3
- 18-popcap Churchill get denied by 8-popcap Stugs

With respect to WBP, Churchills will benefit from the following bugfixes:
- Grenade ability (their main weapon, arguably) will launch reliably, 100% of the time
- Changes to AoE suppression means that you can actually use smoke projector to cover an infantry advance

IMO, there are two types of changes Churchills could be prone to receive.

The first type of changes are subtle retouching kind of modifications that change little by themselves, but could, potentially form a useful aggregate when you combine them all together:
- Popcap from 18 to 16
- Smoke projector no longer bestows a speed penalty
- Smoke projector smoke also provides yellow cover to temper incoming suppression for models going stray
- Vet1 side-hatch guns no longer suffer from movement penalties (because they can't point forward)

If we wanted to go a bit further, I would change the penetration values of the Churchill:
- Increase hug-range penetration from 130 to 180. Penetration should remain identical for ranges 15+

(the Churchill is almost as slow as the KT, which means all the affected tanks will have more than enough opportunity to keep their distance)

This would ensure that a Churchill cannot be perpetually ignored. You should keep away from the Churchill, which would mean you could use a Churchill as a real meatshield that blocks enemy tanks.

I hate how the covering smoke works- it doesn't make it obvious that LOS is blocked, so what ends up happening is the tank's lumbering around and nearby enemy units are just sitting next to it doing nothing, and you're just watching it all unfold.
If the ability is about being a cover for Churchill then it should be simple and just be a clone of AEC's cover smoke

The changes by Smith seem reasonable. The churchill needs to stay an infantry support tank, not become some damage sponge of death. The idea should be if you are facing lots of infantry, and you have to push through team weapons to deploy the churchill, and if you are facing tank fights that are mobile you should need the comet.

Churchill wouldn't be built even if comet was bad, but it would help if the comet was not literally the best tank in the game by far.

Actually, with respect to the smoke projector, an alternative idea to change it into an actual infantry support ability:

- Retain speed penalties
- Churchill now spews yellow cover smoke instead
- Units in the smoke get a reduction of incoming suppression by 80% (to match green cover).

However, to go for this idea, Tommies would probably have to reworked away from their current max-range terminator state.

That way, Churchill smoke no longer benefits tanks. Churchill smoke will no longer benefit Churchill itself, either. Churchill smoke now benefits infantry (that can now fire from it).

Currently the best way to use the Churchill is drive it in reverse and pop smoke at the first sign of a pak-wall.

The thing about smoke actually providing cover is how it might affect British infantry's cover mechanics.

Churchill could spew a sort of CoH1 style smoke that could be a LOS shocker, but still provide RA bonuses.

(Does anyone ever account for the .9 RA multiplier for infantry that are in cover?)

I do not think the problem comes from the comet over performing, but the churchhill is under performing. It does little in the battle besides giving axis at vet. You do not want to build a churchill vs heavy hitter like the jagtiger or elephant. You will be doing more harm to yourself than good.

My player card is Flush. Top 11 team as allies.