Ostheer Panther

I am unsure as how to use this unit effectively in a 1v1 and a 2v2. It takes a pretty hefty investment to get this unit on the field and most of the time requires you to invest less in vital tier 3 vehicles such as the Stug III and Panzer IV. Yet when I invest this huge amount of resources, I simply don't know how to use the tank, since it seems it can't be used in the role it was intended for.

The problems I am having are that I can't really count on it to chase down enemy vehicles since it misses 9/10 shots on the move, not to mention that it misses often whilst standing still too. This in combination with its very poor anti infantry capabilities makes it rather, how should I put this, lackluster? At least it has good armor, that is a plus.

I am in need of advice. How can use the Ostheer Panther properly? I know by now that it can't fulfill the role of an OKW Panther due to the OKW Panther having better accuracy when gaining veterancy. So, what should it do? Is it worth even getting it?

Thanks

Its lack of moving accuracy is well-documented across threads on this forum by frustrated players, so there is potential for change if the community is vocal enough in the upcoming Relic polls designed to determine focus points for the future balance patches.

Regarding the resource requirement for it: if your doctrine preferences are not set in stone, you can use the Luftwaffe Support Doctrine, Osttruppen Doctrine or Close Air Support Doctrine that allow resources to be dropped on controlled Fuel/Munitions points -- enabling you a quicker gathering of needed amount of Fuel to tech for and deploy the Panther.

I have no other advice on the tank as its lack of performance in accuracy is not something you can circumvent by playing differently.

The Ostheer Panther is usually not worth investing in during a 1v1 and 2v2. Only build them if you can have them help you with heavy tanks (IS2 and Pershing). But in general Stugs should do the work for you.

Unit is in need of a slight alteration to help it fill its role properly.

Its lack of moving accuracy is well-documented across threads on this forum by frustrated players, so there is potential for change if the community is vocal enough in the upcoming Relic polls designed to determine focus points for the future balance patches.

Regarding the resource requirement for it: if your doctrine preferences are not set in stone, you can use the Luftwaffe Support Doctrine or Close Air Support Doctrine that allow resources to be dropped on controlled Fuel/Munitions points -- enabling you a quicker gathering of needed amount of Fuel to tech for and deploy the Panther.

I have no other advice on the tank as its lack of performance in accuracy is not something you can circumvent by playing differently.

It is as I feared, I will leave the Panther be then for now.

The Ostheer Panther is usually not worth investing in during a 1v1 and 2v2. Only build them if you can have them help you with heavy tanks (IS2 and Pershing). But in general Stugs should do the work for you.

Unit is in need of a slight alteration to help it fill its role properly.

Thank you, I will leave the Panther for what it is for now.

The simple and sad answer is, don't ever build it. In 1vs1 its not worth it. 2 Stugs do a way better job at At. So its always better to stay at t3 and later call in a Tiger. But if you like the Panther, like I do its shittiness won't prevent you from building it. If you use it, play to its strength, that is survivability and armor. Use it as a defensive tank, almost like a mobile pak. As you noticed while moving the accuracy is mediocre. So hit stop as soon as you see an enemy tank. And while you do this, hope for a patch so that the panther comes back to old glory
Edit: Damm should learn to type faster.

its not just its terrible moving accuracy, but also the fact that its base accuracy at far is 25% lower than the OKW panther

dont expect changes soon, out of scope

The poor moving accuracy is intended. All armor has pretty shit moving accuracy. You might think some of the medium armor has good moving accuracy, especially allied units, but the difference is in the target size. A sherman has a much better chance of hitting a panther simply because the panther has a larger size and takes up more space. I'm not sure if there is an allied equivalent of the panther, so you can't really do an apples to apples comparison (Comet maybe?). You can look on the stats page and get the numerical size of each entity in the game, those sizes play a big role in accuracy, especially vehicles which rely on their scatter value to hit the target based on the distance. Which is another point, the panther is firing from long rage, so greater chance to miss from that.

I don't think it's moving accuracy needs to be changed at all. However, I have been super frustrated with it's crap accuracy while stationary. Not that it should nail every shot at max range, but sometimes I just can't hit anything at all, like the Jackson.

The pintle gun does a pretty good job of anti-infantry. I mean combined with the awesome front armor, you can take out AT troops even. Can't really say the same with allies. Now it's not going to mow down a blob, but I wouldn't say it's bad anti-infantry. A panther without the pintle mg is bad anti-infantry.

The poor moving accuracy is intended. All armor has pretty shit moving accuracy. You might think some of the medium armor has good moving accuracy, especially allied units, but the difference is in the target size. A sherman has a much better chance of hitting a panther simply because the panther has a larger size and takes up more space.

Strange then that the Ostheer Panther is also able to reliably miss the biggest of targets very often like an IS2 or a Pershing, not to mention a comet.

I don't think it's moving accuracy needs to be changed at all. However, I have been super frustrated with it's crap accuracy while stationary. Not that it should nail every shot at max range, but sometimes I just can't hit anything at all, like the Jackson.

If it's moving accuracy is not to be adjusted, then the Allied vehicles with arguably better moving accuracy need to be towed down accordingly.

The pintle gun does a pretty good job of anti-infantry. I mean combined with the awesome front armor, you can take out AT troops even. Can't really say the same with allies. Now it's not going to mow down a blob, but I wouldn't say it's bad anti-infantry. A panther without the pintle mg is bad anti-infantry.

A Panther with a pintle mounted mg is still pathetic compared to a Comet or a Pershing when it comes to AI.

On topic
As you said, you need to put aside vital tier 3 units like a stug or a panzer iv and tech for the Panther. Like may have said before me, it is not worth it to get it in its current state. Better of with double stugs and a p4 to support them.

Don´t build the Panther as Ostheer.

It can´t do anything the Panzer IV and StuG can´t do more cost efficiently.

You get lower dps than on a Panzer IV for more penetration that is not needed versus anything but the rare sight of an IS-2. And even then StuGs with their turbo reload make any Panther obsolete.

This is not because German Tier 3 vehicles are overpowered but the Ostheer Panther being absolute shit. The OKW one can at least fight infantry properly with better MG accuracy. Thus the Ostheer Panther needs either a fix or the OKW Panther stats at the very least. It comes out later after all.

Imo axis tanks where designed to have more armor but that advantage become pointless due to buffs to allied AT penetration and accuracy.

The fact that seem that most allies AT seems to designed to counter the Super heavies makes effectiveness of Allied AT to hit and penetrate other axis armor (up to ranges 60) makes axis armor UP.

Units like the Firefly and Su-85 can reliably hit and penetrate most axis tanks. Even the cheap Su-76 can penetrate a Tiger with around 60% change at range 60.

Imo
1) all stock TD should have damage of 160 (firefly,M36) if they need more damage vs KT JT Elephant one can give them bonus damage.

2) TD should be divided to medium TDs and heavy TD. Medium should have high accuracy but low enough penetration to be unable to hit penetrate premium tanks at far ranges. Heavy TD should have high penetration but low accuracy so that they can not hit medium tanks at far ranges. (vehicles size might need to be adjusted also)

3)unturreted TD should suffer no penalty while firing on the move and have their accuracy adjusted.

Hey guys, try to keep on topic.

Hey guys, try to keep on topic.

Thank you

Sadly the same as most things axis the panther is very bad at the moment. It is just there so allied fanboys can get off on "MUH TACTICS" when they click move their blob into your army. Paks and Stugs are by no means much better but you will live if you lose a Stug. Also you might even be able to win with a Stug + P4 combo but you have to be REALLY lucky.

my suggestion is that just replace the ostheer panther with the okw panther . same feul same cost same everything.

The Ost Panther definitely needs some love with the community patch. And I´m not talking about just accuracy on the move. The problem is not only it not hitting but also it being bad if it ever hits. The rate of fire is bad, it has less range than real tank destroyers and the Comet can give it a headache while also being way more usable versus infantry. The Panther can lob a shell and then run away to not get killed by medium tanks.

i have no idea what you bobs are on again. buff ostheer here, buff panther there, panther sucks ((((((, please buff grens with octa MG42.. i like my panther, but actually.. it should fire nukes to be balanced!

fix comet, thats it.

In my experiences, the Panther is best used like a mobile AT gun. You keep it rather far back, with target vehicles only turned on, and wait for shit to start rolling towards it.

As many people have pointed out, the panther isn't that great at what it does and it costs a lot both for the tech getting there and the vehicle itself.

That being said, it's best to go for T3 and keep your T3 units alive.

In an ideal situation, I'll get my T3 armor out, then my call in tank - whether it be a command P4 or the Tiger - then buy the T4 tech in the HQ, then wait a few minutes, then build T4.

The reasoning behind doing this is due to multiple factors:

1) It's almost always better to spend your fuel when you can rather than waiting for something
2) The Panther is a great tank
3) You're hopefully going to win before you build T4

You have a healthy composition of vehicles that is good at tackling all targets: infantry, support weapons, vehicles. Only weakness is concentrated artillery guns, blobs of handheld AT, and bad micro on your part.

One of my favorite late game compositions is using the blitzkrieg commander and having
2x Stug III G
1x P4
1x P4 Command tank

gives you panzer smoke, stuka CAS, some other fun shit. Tac Movement, I think? Anyway, this is a super potent combo. Stugs are great at taking out tanks and will pen shit up to an IS2. That's when you need bigger guns.

The stugs aren't heavily damaged by rocket artillery.
The stugs have a good HP pool; they can take a lot of hits.
They have a good rate of fire.
They are cheap.

If you're 40 minutes into a game, however, and you've got 250 fuel in the bank and you've got the manpower and you've just lost a stug, buy a panther over a stug. The increased popcap may make you shuffle your infantry unit composition a bit but the Panther has some better traits than the Stug including

Higher armor - takes less damage
more HP - lives longer
moves faster - both 1&2
Has a higher penetration value - more likely to damage enemy armor


The Stug, however, has about reloading time that's half that of the panther's so you're firing nearly 2 shots on the Stug for each Panther shot assuming that you're stationary and the target is staying within firing range and within sight.

The panther is better, though, for its mobility. It allows you to, if necessary, flank an enemy tank, specifically one damaged by a teller mine. The Panther, however, is a luxury. You need to have vetted, upgunned infantry, whether it be LMG42s and/or a schreck squad of pgrens, probably 2 machine guns (map dependent) and at least one, possibly two, other teamweapons (mortar/AT gun). The Panther is very expensive, and wasting your fuel on teching in the 32nd minute right before you've lost a stug, p4 cmd tank, and a vetted PaK to an enemy push isn't the best time to tech up. You've got to be conservative with your fuel and stock up so if a loss occurs and you need something on the field immediately, you have that option.

The strongest wehr gets is when all of its units come together. I wouldn't recommend diving any tank into the enemy portions of the map, but if you've got to do it, the panther is a better choice than the Stug. When you've got to flank an enemy tank, or want to be super daring and hit a katyusha, the panther is your better option due to its speed and survivability if its engaged.


http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=panther_squad_mp
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=stug_iii_squad_mp

I hope my rambling helped