Login

russian armor

Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.3 Update

PAGES (18)down
18 Dec 2016, 03:06 AM
#141
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

actually, why we can't just reverse changed to Penals and replace flamer with DP-28?


Why cant we just make their flame upgrade 120 munitions and take both weapon slots so they cant pick anything up?

With their vet re-scale and an increase to munitions for the cost to upgrade them, it becomes a more tactical choice to upgrade to it or not, as by the time you have the munis are you will to not have enough to snare a vehicle or use another ability, it would be a thought out choice, not a mindless "fuck it why not" like it was before.

If you really want to keep the satchel changes (AT sticky satchel), make it an unlock / replace for when AT nades are researched. Not all this other gimmicky "T1 is the jack of all trades" stuff with the PTRS and what not.
18 Dec 2016, 03:07 AM
#142
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4

Also real quick, when you retreat the OST MG42 with incendiary fire on, it will bug and never come off CD in the patch, just a heads up.
18 Dec 2016, 03:37 AM
#143
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

I think one of the biggest issues with the balancing of the soviet faction has been the idea if penal battalions in t1. For flavor reasons, it becomes very hard to change penals roles, because it just doesn't 'feel' right.

I have always been a fan of the early design of coh2 where guards and shocks were t1 specific. What if (no ptrs) guards were placed in t1 with 2 upgrades? Ppsh assault package and lmg package?

This would make t1 make more sense as the "special rifle command", and still keep the whole idea of t1 being a high risk infantry micro tier.

I honestly don't know what you would do with penals at that point. Maybe replace the old guards slot with them?

I agree however that penal at specializations is probably not the way to go. The road to making t1 viable is not necessarily to buff it, but to fix the issue with t2 just being too good in comparison.
18 Dec 2016, 05:25 AM
#144
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Hmm if you talk about Guards with DPs/PTRS then i'm afraid that at that point, you have to leave M3/Sniper/Shocks.been barely usable.
At this point, we are just tring to over-engineering a solution to a problem which is solved by adjusting other factors which aren't Penals.


Oh I was just talking visual style and artistic feel.
18 Dec 2016, 07:22 AM
#145
avatar of heroicservant

Posts: 34

Guys I was excited for this patch. But now i'm more worried then when relic did the balancing. Half of what you guys are doing isn't even balancing, just fix a few of the issues for over preforming units and thats it. IT'S GETTING SCARY
18 Dec 2016, 07:36 AM
#146
avatar of heroicservant

Posts: 34

is it me or thiw winter patch gets more retarded over time?


+1
Phy
18 Dec 2016, 07:36 AM
#147
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

The main problem is trying to balance the game being able ONLY to focus in few units. It's impossible to balance penals and guards, if you can't touch cons too.
18 Dec 2016, 07:41 AM
#148
avatar of heroicservant

Posts: 34

I understand that they can't touch everything, but they don't need to. Nerf the t70, usf mortar, penal flamer and the other handful of units/issues that are over preforming and call it a day. The game has lots of issues that need to be reworked but they are not in scope right now so don't go picking and choosing right now.
18 Dec 2016, 10:08 AM
#149
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

And what if we instaed of changing whole soviet commader call ins just to balance one unit we make penals are they were in patch 1.2, removed PTRS and gave them DP lmg one you get tier 4.

Right now we are too much overcomplicating for one unit. If you want to do with every unit that is going changed then coh2 will be hardest game tu understand ever
18 Dec 2016, 10:17 AM
#150
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Why complicate so much if you can make Penals from 1.1 and add M-42 /Done


This PTRS, PPsh+flamer, then another 3rd PTRS after T4 :S:S:S:S:S:S

It's like you have no idea what to do with Penals.
Take away flamethrower, make their stats better than Cons (so they are stronger than Cons but have no utility), no utility (so Cons have better utility) and put M-42.

But of course you haven't tried anything else becasue "PTRS" :/
___
If any infantry needs upgrades, it's Cons, not Penals. Cons should be mainline infantry, while Penals should be quasi-elite, better than Cons but without utility, apart from satchel.

Synergy from AI Penals, M3 and Sniper covered with M-42 would be enough to go for T1.

ATM I see no reason why I should go for T1 with all those weird changes.
18 Dec 2016, 11:24 AM
#151
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

Why complicate so much if you can make Penals from 1.1 and add M-42 /Done


This PTRS, PPsh+flamer, then another 3rd PTRS after T4 :S:S:S:S:S:S

It's like you have no idea what to do with Penals.
Take away flamethrower, make their stats better than Cons (so they are stronger than Cons but have no utility), no utility (so Cons have better utility) and put M-42.

But of course you haven't tried anything else becasue "PTRS" :/
___
If any infantry needs upgrades, it's Cons, not Penals. Cons should be mainline infantry, while Penals should be quasi-elite, better than Cons but without utility, apart from satchel.

Synergy from AI Penals, M3 and Sniper covered with M-42 would be enough to go for T1.

ATM I see no reason why I should go for T1 with all those weird changes.


I pretty much agree.
18 Dec 2016, 11:34 AM
#152
avatar of le_saucisson_masque

Posts: 485 | Subs: 1

I understand that they can't touch everything, but they don't need to. Nerf the t70, usf mortar, penal flamer and the other handful of units/issues that are over preforming and call it a day. The game has lots of issues that need to be reworked but they are not in scope right now so don't go picking and choosing right now.


+10 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

All the people still playing coh2 gave up on geting perfect balance.
this game will never be perfect or even close

instead of trying to make soviet T1 perfect, or even viable with ptrs penals, sticky satchel, ... WHY NOT FOCUS ON THE PRIORITIES ?

you already resolved 90% of big balance issue (usf mortar, double lmg, penals vet & flame, light vehicles,...)

remove penals flamethrower, nerf their veterancy and the rate they get it -> DONE.

people who want to go T1 will have to rely on guard doctrine or fast T3.

you can't "fix" the whole game with such a small scope...

Everyone will be already very happy if you finish to do the balance hotfix that relic couldn't do.
18 Dec 2016, 12:16 PM
#153
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

Ptrs was a good idea, need only something like molotov to clear buildings instead of flamer. Stop. With molotov after tech penals are ok with ptrs. If they are underperforming for their cost just make penals cost 280 like a rifleman or tommy. But please don't try again with flamers, the problem wasn't their damage until the are close range, the problem is only that flamer damage is aoe, and blob flamers on durable squads is too OP, vs retrating squads too. Ppsh will not change this thing.
18 Dec 2016, 12:24 PM
#154
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Ptrs was a good idea, need only something like molotov to clear buildings instead of flamer. Stop. With molotov after tech penals are ok with ptrs. If they are underperforming for their cost just make penals cost 280 like a rifleman or tommy. But please don't try again with flamers, the problem wasn't their damage until the are close range, the problem is only that flamer damage is aoe, and blob flamers on durable squads is too OP, vs retrating squads too. Ppsh will not change this thing.


Yea, let's give them PTRS, molo, AT satchel and ppsh.

Who needs Cons, right?
18 Dec 2016, 13:49 PM
#155
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Why complicate so much if you can make Penals from 1.1 and add M-42 /Done


This PTRS, PPsh+flamer, then another 3rd PTRS after T4 :S:S:S:S:S:S

It's like you have no idea what to do with Penals.
Take away flamethrower, make their stats better than Cons (so they are stronger than Cons but have no utility), no utility (so Cons have better utility) and put M-42.

But of course you haven't tried anything else becasue "PTRS" :/
___
If any infantry needs upgrades, it's Cons, not Penals. Cons should be mainline infantry, while Penals should be quasi-elite, better than Cons but without utility, apart from satchel.

Synergy from AI Penals, M3 and Sniper covered with M-42 would be enough to go for T1.

ATM I see no reason why I should go for T1 with all those weird changes.


I was against this for a long time because I thought penals PTRS can work and so on, but after all these changes I have to say I was mistaken. We need to start everything from beggining. Give penals 1.1 stats, remove flamer, remove PTRS and.

I have better Idea than M42 in tier 1. I think M42 should be unlocked in tier 1 once you build tier3 or simply put it in tier3. By this way axis players can counter tier1 if they make fast push with really light vehicles (222, flaptrack) and soviet player can make comback once he gets tier3. By this change we will encourage soviet player to tech fast so he won´t be albe to play extended tier1 play.

What do you think ?


And yes M42 is good in current sitiation, i tryed it and it is more than enaught to keep soviet tier1 in play. Maybe even too strong as core unit, we have to make further testing. M42 should be weak lategame like PTRS penals are, you should be punished if you make them too many.


Hector
18 Dec 2016, 14:39 PM
#156
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



I was against this for a long time because I thought penals PTRS can work and so on, but after all these changes I have to say I was mistaken. We need to start everything from beggining. Give penals 1.1 stats, remove flamer, remove PTRS and.

I have better Idea than M42 in tier 1. I think M42 should be unlocked in tier 1 once you build tier3 or simply put it in tier3. By this way axis players can counter tier1 if they make fast push with really light vehicles (222, flaptrack) and soviet player can make comback once he gets tier3. By this change we will encourage soviet player to tech fast so he won´t be albe to play extended tier1 play.

What do you think ?


And yes M42 is good in current sitiation, i tryed it and it is more than enaught to keep soviet tier1 in play. Maybe even too strong as core unit, we have to make further testing. M42 should be weak lategame like PTRS penals are, you should be punished if you make them too many.


Hector


+10000000000000000000000

sounds like the best and most simple solution !!!!!!!
18 Dec 2016, 15:41 PM
#157
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2



And yes M42 is good in current sitiation, i tryed it and it is more than enaught to keep soviet tier1 in play. Maybe even too strong as core unit, we have to make further testing. M42 should be weak lategame like PTRS penals are, you should be punished if you make them too many.


Hector


Please repeat after me and many of the other veteran COH players that are here in this very thread.

T1 SHOULD NOT HAVE AT!

Thanks.
18 Dec 2016, 15:49 PM
#158
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The m42 is a terrible option and the furthest thing from a 'solution' to a perceived problem that doesn't exist.

The best thing I've seen so far for Soviets is:



Nothing else has to be adjusted, changed, or added. I could offer suggestions and ideas of where to go from there, but that'd be superfluous, (and out of scope).
18 Dec 2016, 16:09 PM
#159
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

Bug: Major FRP doesn't work.
18 Dec 2016, 16:10 PM
#160
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

I feel similar to others here, that you guys have lost your way with some of this patch.
Penals need to be unsophisticated Anti-Infantry only killaz. That's all!

Just remove the vet accuracy insanity from the live game, and remove the flamers. If you want an upgrade, go for long range upgrade, but they don't need it. They are great as they are and work in synergy with call-ins.

Giving T1 AT is unnecessary and reduces strategic decision making and risk balancing. Many people already keep a Con around when going Penals for the cheap reinforce 'n merge, and for the AT nades. That works enough until you tech.

If you remove the deliberate individual weaknesses from each faction, (or in this case from only one faction) you destroy this game.
PAGES (18)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

unknown 9
Canada 1
unknown 1

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

610 users are online: 610 guests
0 post in the last 24h
12 posts in the last week
24 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49873
Welcome our newest member, Bigdaddygames
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM