WinterBalance 1.2

Man ptrs penals are useles vs infatry.

Hmm..did i said that i would give all penals a PTRS?

No..i would mix them...2 with, 2 without..ready to overrun a OKW player.

Hmm..did i said that i would give all penals a PTRS?

No..i would mix them...2 with, 2 without..ready to overrun a OKW player.

if you dont believe me that penals have no chance against competent okw player that can hardcounter him and end game in 10 minutes if rushes flaktrack then play a game against me because you are clearly too stubborn to understand that penals get owned by good okw player

Now that you are fixing bugs and balancing the game and can ask this.

Please fix the display of the model requirements to recrew weapons. It says 2, but ends up using 3 models, and in the case of the ostheer that means loosing entire veted squads by a mistake caused by the display of wrong information, a bug, or wrongly implemented changes.

BTW, we need to standarize the WinterBalance posts. There is one in gameplay, other in balance and another in Lobby. They should be in the same place

Now that you are fixing bugs and balancing the game and can ask this.

Please fix the display of the model requirements to recrew weapons. It says 2, but ends up using 3 models, and in the case of the ostheer that means loosing entire veted squads by a mistake caused by the display of wrong information, a bug, or wrongly implemented changes.

This may be quite counter intuitive but the value displayed there is the minimal number of models needed to man the weapon. So if you have a squad with less members than this number you can't man the weapon at all, loosing the squad or not. Also, if your wapon is manned, but the number of models manning it drops below this number, the rest of them will run to the edge of the map (usually, sometimes the number of members to run is smaller f.e. in maxim or mg42).

The number you are talking about is the maximal number of models taken from squad when manning the weapon and it is always 3. For all weapons. No need to display it at all.

So in fact this indicator is batter to show the number it shows as it gives at least some insight, even though the number should be shown somewhere else, than to always show the same number.

Mind that this is not true for abandoned vehicles as for them max value differs from one to another. Vehicles can be manned only with a set number of squad members, so the maximal value is always equal to minimal value shown on the indicator. So in this case exactly the number of models shown on this indicator will be taken from the squad. This can also be a reason of you misunderstanding what it means.

I hope it was helpful, ask if you have any questions about it

This may be quite counter intuitive but the value displayed there is the minimal number of models needed to man the weapon. So if you have a squad with less members than this number you can't man the weapon at all, loosing the squad or not. Also, if your wapon is manned, but the number of models manning it drops below this number, the rest of them will run to the edge of the map.

The number you are talking about is the maximal number of models taken from squad when manning the weapon and it is always 3. For all weapons. No need to display it at all.

So in fact this indicator is batter to show the number it shows as it gives at least some insight, even though the number should be shown somewhere else, than to always show the same number.

Mind that this is not true for abandoned vehicles as for them max value differs from one to another. Vehicles can be manned only with a set number of squad members, so the maximal value is always equal to minimal value shown on the indicator. So in this case exactly the number of models shown on this indicator will be taken from the squad. This can also be a reason of you misunderstanding what it means.

I hope it was helpful, ask if you have any questions about it

The problem is, that if you have for example a 3 men pio, gren squad and want to reman a weapon it will take all three members, result you loose a squad, even though the number says only 2 needed.

The problem is, that if you have for example a 3 men pio, gren squad and want to reman a weapon it will take all three members, result you loose a squad, even though the number says only 2 needed.

Exactly, it is the minimum, but it always takes as much as it can up until 3. All it means is that you can't man it with 1 man squad.

Exactly, it is the minimum, but it always takes as much as it can up until 3. All it means is that you can't man it with 1 man squad.

But its just stupid. If its possible to change it, so that it takes only 2 models if your squad has only 3 members left would be great. I think you could categorise it as a bug fix, so it would be in scope.

But its just stupid. If its possible to change it, so that it takes only 2 models if your squad has only 3 members left would be great. I think you could categorise it as a bug fix, so it would be in scope.

It is not stupid at all. It's one of the most basic design decisions of coh. This is why the smallest squad is always 4 and the biggest is always 6. So that you could have squads with different number of men, but still had to reinforce to take more than weapon from the field.

Also if you came with grens to take maxim and it took 2 men from your squad you would have to retreat both grens and the maxim. With how it works right now the maxim can stay on the field and keep fighting.

Hmm..did i said that i would give all penals a PTRS?

No..i would mix them...2 with, 2 without..ready to overrun a OKW player.

You will be play with 4 penals ? Really ?

Not as useless as Panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks.

PG with shrecks have there role and thay are fine with it. Thay have better AI nade, thay can get camo or sprint, thay have better damage vs vehicles.

It is not stupid at all. It's one of the most basic design decisions of coh. This is why the smallest squad is always 4 and the biggest is always 6. So that you could have squads with different number of men, but still had to reinforce to take more than weapon from the field.

Also if you came with grens to take maxim and it took 2 men from your squad you would have to retreat both grens and the maxim. With how it works right now the maxim can stay on the field and keep fighting.

It works well if you have 4 men squads thats true, and I dont want to change that. But if only 3 men are left, it shouldn´t take all of them if you want to capture a maxim. And thats the thing I want to see changed. If you have only 3 models left it should take only two, as the icon suggest it. Lets say you just wiped a maxim, but lost one model in the process, in order to capture it you either have to retreat and reinforce (that way you give the maxim back to the opponent) or to trade your squad. Both ways you lost something. This problem only exist for Ost and Ukf, every other faction has a cheap unit with more then 4 men to reman teamweapons. So I dont see the problem in changing it.

It works well if you have 4 men squads thats true, and I dont want to change that. But if only 3 men are left, it shouldn´t take all of them if you want to capture a maxim. And thats the thing I want to see changed. If you have only 3 models left it should take only two, as the icon suggest it. Lets say you just wiped a maxim, but lost one model in the process, in order to capture it you either have to retreat and reinforce (that way you give the maxim back to the opponent) or to trade your squad. Both ways you lost something. This problem only exist for Ost and Ukf, every other faction has a cheap unit with more then 4 men to reman teamweapons. So I dont see the problem in changing it.

So in your opinion conscripts, penals and other 6 men squads should be able to take 2 weapons before retreating? That's quite a rebalance of whole faction I would say.

It is not stupid at all. It's one of the most basic design decisions of coh. This is why the smallest squad is always 4 and the biggest is always 6. So that you could have squads with different number of men, but still had to reinforce to take more than weapon from the field.

Also if you came with grens to take maxim and it took 2 men from your squad you would have to retreat both grens and the maxim. With how it works right now the maxim can stay on the field and keep fighting.

Well, I would say that what if it always takes 2 men to capture. Then it wouldn't cause that much of a heartbeat to capture it with a 3 man squad, while also making it harder to ninja-steal a support weapon during fights, so you would always have to fight for it.

But this is just my idea to "mend" support weapon recrewing.

Well, I would say that what if it always takes 2 men to capture. Then it wouldn't cause that much of a heartbeat to capture it with a 3 man squad, while also making it harder to ninja-steal a support weapon during fights, so you would always have to fight for it.

But this is just my idea to "mend" support weapon recrewing.

Still, that allows 5 and 6 men squads to take twice the number of weapons from the field than 4 men squads. Ost always looses on that and it looses hard. Plus, there is a weapon called pack howitzer, that has the minimal value set to 3. It was ment to be harder to recapture than at guns and mortars. Also, having as much of a hard time to pick up a stupid AT gun during tank rush as it is to take the pack howie (one model dies) would be simply frustrating.

One and only thing that is inconsistent and would need changing is that there are only 4 team weapons: maxim, mg42, mg34 and vickers that need more models to take the weapon (2) than to use it (1). 50 cal has this value set correctly to 1 in both cases. Changing this would make the indicator easier to understand.

So in your opinion conscripts, penals and other 6 men squads should be able to take 2 weapons before retreating? That's quite a rebalance of whole faction I would say.

Well, to be honest, that's an implication I didn't though of. So maybe change it only for grens and pios? But yea it would be inconsistent and counter-intuitive. So its probably the best if we just stay with what we have got.

Luchs changes make zero sense to me. It was never overpowered as a unit (except with vet). Problem was that it arrived way too fast. Now it's worse but arrives even faster. Right.

I must be blind, but in my eyes, the Luchs is getting a very nice price reduction, on top of increased availability of medkits on the tier that supports it.

The reason why the AoE needed some toning down was because that it would murder things if the shots scattered to obstacles behind them.

Incidentally, that is exactly what happens if a Luchs base-dives after a retreating squads; all squad models are helplessly clumped up against the base structure = death.

The fix to the Luch's scatter profile, will make it so that 33% more shots will land on the ground than before (as opposed to missing completely, in the air).

Just like before; avoid obstacles between you and the target, and avoid moving the luchs while it's firing, and it's all going to be OK.

You will be play with 4 penals ? Really ?

it works great in the first 4-6 minutes...

Not as useless as Panzergrenadiers with panzershrecks.

On the otherhand, pansershreck panzergrenadiers are very effective againts tanks.

You have to be a complete moron to lose any kind of tank to PTRS unists. Now while i do understand the developers intention here, the PTRS penal upgrade is simply *not* going to be used under any circumstances.

PTRS at best can scare away light vehicles, you have to fuck up REALLY hard to even lose a light vehicle to PTRS. Hell, conscript AT nades are better than PTRS most of the time.


Againts medium and heavy armour there is no debate, it's 100% useless.


Guards were completely useless when PTRS did no damage to infantry, penal PTRS upgrade is going to be exactly the same if it doesnt do anything to infantry.


What makes the panzershreck powerful is it's initial damage burst, you can fire once and retreat, and avoid taking MP losses.

With PTRS you have to stand still and get shredded by the tank, taking MP losses while the tank can just repair all the damage for no cost. Hence, PTRS againts tanks is useless, because you never kill anything, only do some damage while taking heavy MP losses.


M3 with ptrs penals might be ok, but since M3 flamer has been heavily nerfed and is basically useless now (doesn't do any damage), it's fallen off the meta completely. And even if M3 was viable, then you're better of getting guards for the FREE PTRS and using those munis on much more useful flamers/mines that can actually do something.


I do understand where you guys are going here, but believe me, it's just not going to work. Nerfing snipers, guards, as well as penals is just going to throw soviet T1 out of the meta completely. It will be either t2 or conspam again.

Either the PTRS penals need to do actual damage vs tanks, have increased range, or do damage vs infantry.

Aside from that the upgrade is going to be completely useless.


Other than that the changes are decent, i guess.

I must be blind, but in my eyes, the Luchs is getting a very nice price reduction, on top of increased availability of medkits on the tier that supports it.

The reason why the AoE needed some toning down was because that it would murder things if the shots scattered to obstacles behind them.

Incidentally, that is exactly what happens if a Luchs base-dives after a retreating squads; all squad models are helplessly clumped up against the base structure = death.

The fix to the Luch's scatter profile, will make it so that 33% more shots will land on the ground than before (as opposed to missing completely, in the air).

Just like before; avoid obstacles between you and the target, and avoid moving the luchs while it's firing, and it's all going to be OK.

You do with luchs double buff, like relic make double nerfs, buff his stats, buff price.

it works great in the first 4-6 minutes...

And what next ? Can you show me repleys of this play ? 4 Squad of penals its in future MP bleed, no teching and another things.