Italian Faction Proposal (Outline)

Why must we try to play God?

^
Funny how you say the Serbians are viable as a faction, when all they had were Chetniks during the war. You know... guerilla warfare and shit.

All support for the Italians coming to the game as end-game content

Italians could be really something good and new for this game! But i hope this won't stop Relic, it would be awesome to see also a faction like Commonwealth Nations (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, etc.) i think that UKF are only british, but there are also its colonies and commonwealth nations that fought the war, it could have british tanks like the Archer, Bishop, Matilda, Humber, Crusader and Grant!
And to really become a 4vs4, another axis faction in my opinion could be Japan (but i think wouldn't happen) or a mixed faction of Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Croatia and Finland, using as much as they can field like the hungarian Turan and Zrinyi (i hope it's the correct spelling), and maybe using german vehicles to fill the gaps.

Also special commanders for americans like Free French Forces and French Resistance, while British could have Free Polish Forces and Italian partisans.
Also new commanders for OKW like one based on the italian social republic and another one about Osttruppen (actually osttruppen fought primarily on the western front).

These are just ideas, something that in my opinion could be added to this game and make it even more enjoyable.

I would argue that the italians would just be ostruppen plus german equipment. I'm not arguing that the italians didn't contribute to the war, I'm saying they might be redundant.

Ok, this is a post that has a meaning, not #pastaspamming.

Of course the italian army wasn't as powerful as the wehrmacht, and the italians will not become an army similar to the Ostheer & OKW, i think that it could work more or less as a mix between soviets and USF, in my italian army idea it has cheap basic infantry, some elite troops, AT guns, a 45mm mortar, a tankette, 2 light tanks, 1 medium tank, 2 SPGs and 1 AA-AT gun. And there are also commanders.
These units were common in 1943 and many other in previous years. I tried to make an italian army set in 1943.
I hope you changed your idea about italian army = osttruppen army, but doesn't matter if hadn't change your opinion, at least to let you know that it's not just an army of riflemen, 47mm AT guns, M15s and L3/33 tankettes.

Invis'd off topic posts and cleaned up the thread. Try to stay on topic please.

Invis'd off topic posts and cleaned up the thread. Try to stay on topic please.

thanks man!

Ok, this is a post that has a meaning, not #pastaspamming.

Of course the italian army wasn't as powerful as the wehrmacht, and the italians will not become an army similar to the Ostheer & OKW, i think that it could work more or less as a mix between soviets and USF, in my italian army idea it has cheap basic infantry, some elite troops, AT guns, a 45mm mortar, a tankette, 2 light tanks, 1 medium tank, 2 SPGs and 1 AA-AT gun. And there are also commanders.
These units were common in 1943 and many other in previous years. I tried to make an italian army set in 1943.
I hope you changed your idea about italian army = osttruppen army, but doesn't matter if hadn't change your opinion, at least to let you know that it's not just an army of riflemen, 47mm AT guns, M15s and L3/33 tankettes.

Okay I can see where you are coming from. I would argue that their doctrines would be primarily ambush, and the issue they have to cope with us a complete lack of elite infantry.

Okay I can see where you are coming from. I would argue that their doctrines would be primarily ambush, and the issue they have to cope with us a complete lack of elite infantry.

????? We had elite infantry like "alpini" and most of our infantry was mechanized so something like panzer elite litteraly remove marauder for "semovente" and p4 for "carro Armato p40"

????? We had elite infantry like "alpini" and most of our infantry was mechanized so something like panzer elite litteraly remove marauder for "semovente" and p4 for "carro Armato p40"

Hm true.

@GrenadierIT17
Oh, I'm all ok for that kind of stuff, no need to say. I was just vaugely reffering to ReForever's comment and his inclusion of the Serbian ( yes, Serbian) army as a viable DLC faction. I ROFL-ed at that. ^^

We know that Italy performed poorly under certain conditions throughout WW2, but they were usually because of logistics, high commands poor planning, and the unwillingness for some Italians to fight for a German cause, however, we do not think that there is a lack of interesting equipment. Since Coh2 is not a 100% historically accurate game and the Germans can technically win the Battle of Stalingrad in a MP match, I didn't really see a problem with an Italian concept. I believe that a good early game defensive faction can be made which also fits the European Theatre theme of the game.

As for elite infantry units, we have Bersaglieri, Alpini, and Paracadutisti already in the faction concept.

My advice is scrap the Italian Army idea. I've always supported the idea of adding additional armies who actually fought in ww2, so the idea of adding the Italians is insanity.

To clarify further almost every battle the Italians fought in, the Italians lost or they won thanks to the Germans sending ridiculous amounts of troops, tanks and etc to bail the Italians out. I mean they lost to Ethiopia for christ sakes, and you want to make an army out of that?

I can't support an Italian Army who didn't fight in ww2 to be added to coh2. I do however support the Francais Armee or even an army consisting of British colonial troops(Canadian, Australian and New Zealand infantry, vehicles and etc).

"To clarify further almost every battle the Italians fought in, the Italians lost or they won thanks to the Germans sending ridiculous amounts of troops, tanks and etc to bail the Italians out."

This doesn't apply as CoH2 allows armies to win or lose not depending on historical outcomes, but instead in player skill. In this game you are the commander so high command failures would be your own and logistics and supply exist with the idea that holding points gives you fuel and munitions.

The Italians lost the Italo-Ethiopian war of 1895-1896, not the second one which would be considered pre WWII, so that also has nothing to do with our faction concept. Italy lost 339,200 soldiers in WW2, these were all military deaths, so they had to die somehow.

I would support France as a seperate faction due to having their own equipment, but this would be hard considering they capitulated within 2 weeks, so most tanks and equipment are really early war. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand use British weapons and vehicles with some exceptions. I can see them as a commanders for the UK, since you can make a lot using them.

Problems I perceive with an Italian faction -

- Not of much military relevance to WWII after 1943 and CoH2 is set in about 1944-45.
- Not enough non-experimental military technology to compete with other factions. The Italians only produced one real medium tank for instance and according to Wikipedia it was only actually used by the Germans.

Going to do a bit of a plug here, I actually spent a fair bit of time working on a third Axis faction concept a while back and ended up arriving at a joint Italian-German faction based on the Luftwaffe Herman Goering division that fought in Italy. You can take a look at it here.

Problems I perceive with an Italian faction -

- Not of much military relevance to WWII after 1943 and CoH2 is set in about 1944-45.
- Not enough non-experimental military technology to compete with other factions. The Italians only produced one real medium tank for instance and according to Wikipedia it was only actually used by the Germans.

Going to do a bit of a plug here, I actually spent a fair bit of time working on a third Axis faction concept a while back and ended up arriving at a joint Italian-German faction based on the Luftwaffe Herman Goering division that fought in Italy. You can take a look at it here.

obviusly we can't make a only Italian faction I believe a mix of panzer elite and Italian would work well

Gotta love that thread

Problems I perceive with an Italian faction -

- Not of much military relevance to WWII after 1943 and CoH2 is set in about 1944-45.
- Not enough non-experimental military technology to compete with other factions. The Italians only produced one real medium tank for instance and according to Wikipedia it was only actually used by the Germans.

Going to do a bit of a plug here, I actually spent a fair bit of time working on a third Axis faction concept a while back and ended up arriving at a joint Italian-German faction based on the Luftwaffe Herman Goering division that fought in Italy. You can take a look at it here.

obviusly we can't make a only Italian faction I believe a mix of panzer elite and Italian would work well

I can see what you mean, since I based CoH2's date as 1942-1945 due to the singleplayer campaigns, but mp seems to be centered around '44-'45.

I don't think this will be a problem though, since the U.S. is also missing some of it's major units from '44-'45. In implementing the Carro Armato P/40, I think it should be somewhere in between the T-34 and Sherman in stats and cost. We did design a commander based on experimentals where one of the call ins would be a Carro Armato P/43 which was designed to have a 90mm cannon, but I'm not sure if we should go through with experimentals yet since only a wooden mock up was produced. This faction would really do well with it's defensive emplacements since we found quite a bit of decent equipment. I expect the backbone of the armored force to be centered around self propelled guns though since Semoventes were fairly decent tanks and some of the late models that had low production numbers could be used since the Sturmtiger which only had 19 produced is in the game. Many of these were equipped with 75mm, 90mm, and 105mm cannons and can function in dual roles as an infantry killer as self propelled artillery or AT.

I don't know if someone in the group already wrote this down, but I have thought about adding Afrika Korp commanders due to them being an Expeditionary Force to the Italian Army. I do think we can design the Italian faction without any German forces attached and without heavily inflating the effectiveness of their units. I would be for mixing them with the Germans if the Germans were commanders that could be used.

Okay I can see where you are coming from. I would argue that their doctrines would be primarily ambush, and the issue they have to cope with us a complete lack of elite infantry.

The italian army didn't lack elite troops, just as an example the italian army developed many commandos units (i used to commando to give the idea of that kind of units), paratroopers and specialized units.

What Italy lacked in WW2 was:
- leadership: you can field the best technologies you have but if your leaders are idiots, you can easily know what will happen, just for example Barbarossa, the german tanks weren't superior to the soviet tanks, but the way they fought gave them many victories and reaching Moscow
- resources: with few resources in a modern war you'll not last long
- war production: with few resources your war production will not be sufficient to support an army

But these 3 problems aren't real problems in CoH2:
- leadership: you or the AI are the leaders
- resources: your resources are only manpower, ammo and fuel, and you find them in the map
- war production: you call for units in the buildings

Problems I perceive with an Italian faction -

- Not of much military relevance to WWII after 1943 and CoH2 is set in about 1944-45.
- Not enough non-experimental military technology to compete with other factions. The Italians only produced one real medium tank for instance and according to Wikipedia it was only actually used by the Germans.

Going to do a bit of a plug here, I actually spent a fair bit of time working on a third Axis faction concept a while back and ended up arriving at a joint Italian-German faction based on the Luftwaffe Herman Goering division that fought in Italy. You can take a look at it here.

Who said that CoH2 is set in 1944-1945?
I understand that USF, OKW and UKF might be set in 1944-1945 but the only units in the armies (i mean stock units) that have been produced after 1943 are: Ostwind, Jackson, Comet, King Tiger and Jagdpanzer IV.
For an italian army there's no need of experimental units, and the non-experimental units are enough.
The P26/40 was used by the Italian Army, because of its production started when Italy surrendererd, Germans captured many tanks and kept producing it, that's why it was mostly used by germans.
I have seen your army idea and it's good but i prefer a different army from something german again even if some units aren't german.

-People say Italy won't be a realistic faction for COH2.

-Some of the people are just fine with King tigers and Panthers that never break down due to their suspension system and what not.

-People say Italy have no military relevance to WWII after 1943 and CoH2 is set in about 1944-45.

-Same people are ok with a 1942 Red army fighting a 1945 German command.

GernadierIT19 brings up a good point, and it brings to light a problem that most Bias players use on and off when it suits them to support there views. Mainly when it comes to a concept or a unit with in real life problems that aren't real problems in CoH2.


"Oh hey, The King Tiger was badass, had a big gun and lots of armor? Yes. Oh it had breakdown problems amung other things? Na, forget that it wasent a thing. The T-34/76, It was a average tank, nothing special. Oh it had sloped armor and was really cheap and east to produce at the mid-to-late stage of the war? Well first off this is the 1941 version and sloped armor wasn't a thing so production was really expensive."

I see this going around alot with certain units.


I mean, if you really want to put down Italy for somewhat jumping out midway during the war, then we shouldn't even have Nazi Germany at all beacuse, well you know, they lost the war?

Even better, Japan should be in the game instead of Nazi Germany, beacuse you know, it lasted longer in the war, going by logic of some people about Italy.

I await to see people who still want to have it both ways.

Edit for my last post:

We've decided to not use paper tanks at all so the P/43 won't be making an appearance and instead of using the using the Afrika Korps as commanders for Italy, we would instead like to give the Germans 1 or 2 Commanders representing RSI Italy.

Which Axis faction should get the commanders though? OKW or Wehrmacht?

FYI new Relic COH interview (four of the original COH developers):
September 22nd, 2016

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/22/making-of-company-of-heroes/

*SNIP*
It wasn’t until preparing for this interview that I realised a third expansion had also been in the works, after Opposing Fronts and Tales of Valor. It would have been set around Italy, shining a spotlight on a less explored side of the war. Unfortunately, it was never finished. It was pitted against Relic’s other project, Company of Heroes Online in a sort of Highlander-style duel, and it lost. Company of Heroes Online was eventually cancelled as well.

“It was in early development, and right about that time the free-to-play buzzword started to gain momentum,” Wilson says. “So we started up Company of Heroes Online internally as well. So we had these two parallel competing priorities within the franchise, and at one point we made a decision that for the sake of quality and sanity we needed to pick a lane and go for it, and we ended up shelving the Italy stuff and pushing ahead with Company of Heroes Online.”

That may have not been the end of an Italy expansion, however. At the very least, Duffy continues to see it as fertile ground.

“I think it’s often viewed as a bit of a sideshow. Churchill said it was the soft underbelly and proved to be nothing but an incredible slog of challenge. Personally it’s really interesting because the Canadian army played such a big role in Italy. You don’t hear as much about it. The Normandy campaign took the attention away. So there’s a whole area in there that’s little covered. There are lots of spots in the war where important things happened but don’t get attention.“

FYI new Relic COH interview (four of the original COH developers):
September 22nd, 2016

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/22/making-of-company-of-heroes/

I thought they were considering Eastern Front for the 3rd expansion. Damn could have been awesome.

FYI new Relic COH interview (four of the original COH developers):
September 22nd, 2016

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/22/making-of-company-of-heroes/

Thanky you! I hope that Relic will do what they were trying to do in CoH1!