Tank Destroyer Time to Kill stats

I've recently decided to run the numbers for some of the game's TDs, just to see what happens.

I selected the following targets (all vet0):
- IS2
- King Tiger
- Churchill (they're all the same)
- Tiger
- Pershing (Vet0 Panther has only 20 more armour than Pershing)
- Vet2 Panther (which is a seriously beefy unit)

For each TD I show how many seconds are required to take the target down. This assumes:
- The TD is stationary
- The first shot is fired almost immediately after the target is spotted
- The target doesn't break contact
- The damage-chance takes into account: penetration, accuracy and scatter shots (vs targets' geometry)
- For Brit tanks I assume everyone auto-researches the tank-commander upgrade
- For the Firefly (tulip) version, I assume both shots land
- For the Command Panther, I am assuming that Mark Target is always on (even though it only has 30 secs duration)
- I do not take the gun range increases into account (I don't know how to apply it exactly, yet), even though that would affect penetration/etc

The intervals I picked (min seconds max seconds) are such that the duration of 50% of the engagements will fall within that interval (25-percentile, 75-percentile).

I am showing DPS stats for each TD at:
- Vet0
- Vet3 (JP: Vet5; I assume that the ambushing shot always penetrates)
- Vet0 x2 (2 TDs at Vet0, with Tulips/Mark-target (e.g,. a command panther and an ordinary panther)
- Vet3 x2; similarly, what happens when you have 2x of the same TD hitting the same target



I'm throwing those here, in case somebody's interested.

Tank Destroyer stats (sight, max-range)

TD NAME         SIGHT   MAX RANGE
Stug             35       50
Panther, OST     35       50
Command Panther  55       50
Elefant          35       70
JP4            45-60      60
JT               35       85
SU-76            35       60
SU-85          35-75      60
ISU            35-75(?)   70
M10              35       50
Jackson        40-45      60
Pershing         35       45
Comet            45       50
Firefly          45       60
Tiger            35     45-50
King Tiger       35       45
IS-2             35     40-50(?)

Time to kill is given in seconds - Lower is better!

Stats at Max range:

Show Spoiler

Stats at range 50 (Pershing is at 45)

Show Spoiler
(note that the HVAP shells have a duration of 30 seconds and force a reload before the first shot. My calculation doesn't take that into account)

How much time it take for 2+ <insert TD name here> to kill a target?

I'll guide you through an example. Let's say you want to calculate how much time it will take for 2 Stugs to kill an IS-2.

1. Look at the tables I provided, and find how long it takes for 1 Stug to kill an IS-2

It takes between 55.50 and 72.50 seconds to kill an IS-2 with 1 vet0 Stug

2. Find the reload time for the TD in question at stat.coh2.hu

It takes 4.13 seconds between subsequent Stug shots

3. Add the reload time to both the low-estimate and the high-estimate

You get 59.63 and 76.63

4. Divide the numbers you found with the number of TDs you want to use

Since we want to calculate for 2 Stugs, we divide by 2 and we get: 29.815 and 38.315

5. Finally, subtract the reload time from both the low-estimate and the high-estimate. This is your final answer.

Thus, it takes 2 Vet-0 Stugs between 25.685 and 34.185 seconds to kill an IS-2

You can see that's even lower than half the estimate for 1 Stug. Tank destroyers with longer reload times will benefit even more from "blobbing" them together.

My conclusions from this would be:
- The Firefly probably doesn't need its Tulips that much anymore
- We all knew that the Stug had insane DPS, and TWP on top of that. But holy batman, look at that!
- It might be a good idea to replace that Vet2 defensive veterancy on the Panther with some offensive veterancy.

Well panther sure looks weak in terms of DPS. And that's assuming he's stationary too. He misses all the time when moving...

Well one has to keep in mind that the Stug and Panther are firing at range 50 instead of 60.

Maybe you should include the numbers, at range 50 for better comparison reasons..

It also seems that allied TDs become very efficient with veterancy

Ost Panther, while having good survivability, is weak at its supposed role and scales badly...not to mention cost ineffective....but is that news?

Well su 85 and fire fly are the mvp with 60 range and nice ability (self spotting and tulips)
Did you try Jackson ap round ? (I know they last only for 2-3 shoot but what would change? )

Well su 85 and fire fly are the mvp with 60 range and nice ability (self spotting and tulips)
Did you try Jackson ap round ? (I know they last only for 2-3 shoot but what would change? )

What, no comment on how this clearly proves STUG LYFE

What, no comment on how this clearly proves STUG LYFE

well at least the stug is cheaper and come with mg
Now fire fly even stole his stun
(So is the most cost efficient but still better unit are better like comparing comet to t34/85)

I added the following to the list:
- Max sight range / Max gun range indicator
- Pershing
- M10
- HVAP shells for M10/Jackson
- Comet

maybe considerung pershing double shot mechanic. dont know if it affects dps greatly, burstwise it does

im much more amazed about su85 - almost the same DPS as stug but having 10 range more is huge

Nice one!

maybe considerung pershing double shot mechanic. dont know if it affects dps greatly, burstwise it does

im much more amazed about su85 - almost the same DPS as stug but having 10 range more is huge

This is only really true for dealing with heavy tanks though. Not much good all that penetration will do to a p4.

Oh, i think you forgot about the Jagdtiger and the Ferdinand, They are TD too Smith

maybe considerung pershing double shot mechanic. dont know if it affects dps greatly, burstwise it does

im much more amazed about su85 - almost the same DPS as stug but having 10 range more is huge

I think that a more appropriate way to interpret the Stug - SU85 disparity is as follows:
- It is completely insane that such an early, low-investment unit as the Stug is on par with dedicated heavy-tank destroyers when it comes to engaging heavy tanks
- Even though the Stug has TWP AND costs nearly half the MP/FU/Popcap

(I don't need to calculate the stats vs medium-targets to convince anyone that the Stug completely trashes the competition vs them as well).

Poor panther.. even the SU76 its better

I think that a more appropriate way to interpret the Stug - SU85 disparity is as follows:
...

Both stug and Su76 are both extremely cost efficient.

The extra 10 range that both Su-85 and SU-75 have make allot of difference since it means that they can fire out of range of heavy tanks.

It would be better if DPS was also compared at same range of 50.

In addition is real fight penetration is better than ROF for TD that use hit and run tactics. Imo SU-85 is much better now against heavy tanks than it was prepatch with it high ROF and LOW penetration.

Oh, i think you forgot about the Jagdtiger and the Ferdinand, They are TD too Smith

Doctrinal, no Ostheer player in their right mind in a 1v1 scenario would save up for a Ferdinand, as would an OKW player save up for a Jagdtiger in the current state of balance.

Doctrinal, no Ostheer player in their right mind in a 1v1 scenario would save up for a Ferdinand, as would an OKW player save up for a Jagdtiger in the current state of balance.

well, 1v1 isnt the world. in 2v2 jagdtiger and elefant are actually viable imo. and in 3v3 and 4v4 of course

well, 1v1 isnt the world. in 2v2 jagdtiger and elefant are actually viable imo. and in 3v3 and 4v4 of course

Hmm in 2v2 I tend to agree, don't play 3v3 and 4v4 much myself since I don't enjoy getting spammed to death by Allied infantry lol or being forced to spam infantry as allies.

Still, I think Jagdtiger and Elefant are very situational and map dependent. But if you get a good map, they can and will win you the game. If the map is shit however, you are again left with underperforming Panther, low health stug III. Meanwhile you have predator JP4 that rapes everything lol.

Oh, i think you forgot about the Jagdtiger and the Ferdinand, They are TD too Smith

The reason I didn't include those two tanks is because everybody can, pretty much, already do the calculation in their heads, by now. This is because all shots are guaranteed to penetrate:
- Both KT and IS2 require 4 shots to kill -> 3 reload cycles

Lel this thread for people who speak that no units to counter allies tanks
STUG LIFE