In current state, turret is disadvantage and you must be playing agasint brain dead opponent to hit anything on the open field.
Weapon teams.
AVRE vs Sturmtiger
15 Sep 2016, 21:13 PM
#21
Posts: 1072
Weapon teams.
15 Sep 2016, 21:34 PM
#22
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Weapon teams.
1. AVRE will be in sight.
2. AVRE needs to turn turret probably
3. Shell is not isnta like rocket of ST.
In other words, if you move/retreat in time, AVRE will hit empty ground.
15 Sep 2016, 21:43 PM
#23
Posts: 1072
1. AVRE will be in sight.
2. AVRE needs to turn turret probably
3. Shell is not isnta like rocket of ST.
In other words, if you move/retreat in
time, AVRE will hit empty ground.
The turret needs to be fixed. Agreed. However, you can still aim behind the weapon team to anticipate their relocating.
16 Sep 2016, 00:16 AM
#24
Posts: 179
ST needs a cost increase to 560 manpower, 180 or 200 fuel. 160 is just too cheap for what it is.
16 Sep 2016, 17:11 PM
#25
Posts: 175
AVR is more useful than a ST imo, especially with he vet 1 reload buff and the other vet boni also being more useful that ST up to vet 3, where reload is improved. ST needs to retreat all the way back (in 1v1s at least) and then takes way much longer time to reload.
In order to take out Weapon teams, force retreats or destroy fortifications they are equally efficient but the ST is much more cumbersome and micro intensive to play with.
The abilities signal relay, emergency repairs and tank commander are all not very useful while the RE commander is used for a lot of other reasons than just the AVRE. The ST efficiency versus tanks may need to be toned down a little, though.
In order to take out Weapon teams, force retreats or destroy fortifications they are equally efficient but the ST is much more cumbersome and micro intensive to play with.
The abilities signal relay, emergency repairs and tank commander are all not very useful while the RE commander is used for a lot of other reasons than just the AVRE. The ST efficiency versus tanks may need to be toned down a little, though.
16 Sep 2016, 23:39 PM
#26
Posts: 181
The AVRE and the Sturmtiger (and B4, Stuka Dive Bomb, etc.) are poorly designed because the only way for them to be valuable given their long reload time is to wipe squads without any counter-play. The best way to balance them would be to rework them. Give the AVRE a gun like the Brummbar and make the Sturmtiger a slow-firing barrage artillery unit. This gives both factions access to a unit type they didn't have previously and both units rely less on gimmicks and uncounterable squad-wipes.
The Brummbar, Centaur, Croc, Tiger, IS-2, and ISU-152 also wipe squads. Those units aren't complained about because wipes are rarer and aren't unavoidable. When the only thing a unit is good for is wiping support weapons, it's a poorly designed unit. When a unit relies on a minute-long active reload ability with an abandon critical to balance killing medium tanks in a single shot, it's a poorly designed unit.
The AVRE could never one-shot a Panther. On release it did 640 damage per shot and the Panther has 800 health.
The problem isn't wiping, they are supposed to wipe! Stop with the constant nothing should ever be wiped mentality.
The problem is the sturm not giving the player enough warning for the amount of damage they do.
In a recent game I had 2 shermans wiped by a sturmtiger from behind a building when I had no way of even knowing it was on the field yet. How is that fair? The sturm isn't even that expensive.
The Brummbar, Centaur, Croc, Tiger, IS-2, and ISU-152 also wipe squads. Those units aren't complained about because wipes are rarer and aren't unavoidable. When the only thing a unit is good for is wiping support weapons, it's a poorly designed unit. When a unit relies on a minute-long active reload ability with an abandon critical to balance killing medium tanks in a single shot, it's a poorly designed unit.
What, you want AVREs one-shotting panthers again like when brits came out?
It has shorter reload AND starts reloading instantly after you shoot. Damage traded for rate of fire, it's better for wiping lone weapons teams and such. It's more use against opponents who are not blobbing.
Also a HUGE perk is that it has a turret. It's really fine.
The AVRE could never one-shot a Panther. On release it did 640 damage per shot and the Panther has 800 health.
I think a good rule for balance suggestions is this:
"If you can't personally mod it in and you haven't met anyone who has, don't suggest it."
"If you can't personally mod it in and you haven't met anyone who has, don't suggest it."
18 Sep 2016, 07:58 AM
#27
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
But if you keep your units farther apart, stay mobile, and scout a little, the ST becomes meh. Yeah if someone is blobbing tanks then it's a hero, but the answer is to stop keeping tanks in stationary blobs. Again, what I would like to see is some examples of this unit being used effectively in a tournament setting
If the rest of the commanders abilities didn't "suck" or where more "meta"...
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Sep 2016, 16:55 PM
#28
Posts: 508
If the rest of the commanders abilities didn't "suck" or where more "meta"...
I'd argue that if a unit isn't being used much, it's a bad idea to start nerfing it.
I think adjustments are fine but this thread to me seems like "I hate the design of this unit, please make it as extinct as possible."
Also, HEAT rounds are pretty good, aren't they?
18 Sep 2016, 17:09 PM
#29
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I'd argue that if a unit isn't being used much, it's a bad idea to start nerfing it.
I think adjustments are fine but this thread to me seems like "I hate the design of this unit, please make it as extinct as possible."
Also, HEAT rounds are pretty good, aren't they?
Yep, HEAT is good, but the commander is more like a "win more" rather than filling gaps on the OKW army on stages which is weaker. So you can only pick it whenever you don't really need a commander for most of the game.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Sep 2016, 17:27 PM
#30
2 
Posts: 1108
I dont like both units. Once they are on the battlefield, both are melting your vetted infantry/support weapons. Its a pain to see that your vetted troops, that you saved until that one shot monsters arrived, gets shredded piece by piece.
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19 Sep 2016, 00:04 AM
#31
Posts: 851 | Subs: 1
AVRE shares the highest HP of any tank, auto reload, isnt easily abandoned and taken, and has faster reload than the ST.
Also it can shoot over shot blockers. Also costs less fuel
+1. I smell an Allied bias
I guess the small range of it is what kills it bc easy run away. but the ST is more powerful
19 Sep 2016, 20:09 PM
#32
Posts: 149
firing from fog of war vs firing from rifle range. need I say more?
yes it has the crappy abandon thing, and forever to reload. but if you know what you're doing it's nearly impossible to counter. it even one shots medium tanks, which is mostly what allies have.
the avre is really good too in the right hands, but its much harder to be as effective because of its significantly shorter range and the fact it can not kill things that are supposed to counter it(excluding at guns; assault weapons counter at guns)
they both seem odd for this game as they obliterate anything in their path with little counter play. It is, however, easier to run away from AVRE as you see it before it fires unless its lobbing the dust bin over a sight blocker. sturmtiger rounds passing through world objects is necessary as, previously, hitting a change in elevation triggered the round, making it far less useful. it is a crappy fix, but I cant think of a better solution.
yes it has the crappy abandon thing, and forever to reload. but if you know what you're doing it's nearly impossible to counter. it even one shots medium tanks, which is mostly what allies have.
the avre is really good too in the right hands, but its much harder to be as effective because of its significantly shorter range and the fact it can not kill things that are supposed to counter it(excluding at guns; assault weapons counter at guns)
they both seem odd for this game as they obliterate anything in their path with little counter play. It is, however, easier to run away from AVRE as you see it before it fires unless its lobbing the dust bin over a sight blocker. sturmtiger rounds passing through world objects is necessary as, previously, hitting a change in elevation triggered the round, making it far less useful. it is a crappy fix, but I cant think of a better solution.
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