[2vs2] RIP Axis

Lmao apparently none of you have ever tried using the command panther that self spots makes all your teamates tanks better comes in a great doctrine. Or used a KT that almost guarantees a wiped infantry squad on the 2nd shot. Or a elephant or jagdt that can just camps in the middle of the 2v2 dota map that negates allied flanking cause it usually always ends up into a mid vp fight.

Or you don't know how to take your sturm squad and run it to the house guarding the fuel on almost every 2v2 map while the kubel is bleeding mp.

You tell me how you counter an elephant with a teamate using command panther?? you can't because there is no room to flank on most 2v2 maps and even if you could thanks to command panther they know your coming from its vision or cheap arty flares that can be used anywhere. Command panther literally pretty much makes allied tanks useless if who is using it is not completely brain dead.

as long as you have an okw team mate all you have to do is delay the game long enough. Double ost can be kind of week if you get AA because they rely a lot on the call ins. OKW nah they even have arty now for camp maps that is impossible to take out with flak truck guarding with out soviet precision strike.

If you had more than 11 games as axis (5 of which you lost).... you might have more credibility here....

Axis shouldn't need to pick 1 commander to have a chance at winning.... and even if they do, your suggestions are end game ones. Allies should be dominating the early game. Thats like me saying "Oh the game is balanced because the pershing is awesome!".

and to answer your question about how to counter ele +cmd panther = Artillery, or AT guns. (or a mix of firefly tulips with another allied tank destroyer).

or a good old piat blob

snip

This "Axis OP lategame in teamgames, unbeatable plz nurf!!" story was maybe true before Brits, but not anymore.

If you had more than 11 games as axis (5 of which you lost).... you might have more credibility here....

Axis shouldn't need to pick 1 commander to have a chance at winning.... and even if they do, your suggestions are end game ones. Allies should be dominating the early game. Thats like me saying "Oh the game is balanced because the pershing is awesome!".

and to answer your question about how to counter ele +cmd panther = Artillery, or AT guns. (or a mix of firefly tulips with another allied tank destroyer).

or a good old piat blob

Allies use to dominate the early game in 2v2, it is my opinion that they no longer do and are pretty even as there has been several early game buffs for axis. 222 luchs volks kubel change, volks getting incendiary grenades and stg options. Plus great units they have always had ost sniper or mg42 that actually can pen 3 squads at once. Yes since the brits they do have better late game but that if you have a brit partner.

I was simply laughing at how many are trying to create the idea that axis is completely worthless in 2v2 when they are not and plenty capable and imo there late game is still better even considering the brits plus they have a much better early game as well than they use to. sure a piat blob can counter and ele or cmd panther in a way but thats assuming that there not going to try and stop me from running my piat blob up to there elephant and letting me destroy it. everything is situational of course.

mg42 that actually can pen 3 squads at once

i start to understand why you post the way you post

Allies use to dominate the early game in 2v2, it is my opinion that they no longer do and are pretty even as there has been several early game buffs for axis. 222 luchs volks kubel change, volks getting incendiary grenades and stg options. Plus great units they have always had ost sniper or mg42 that actually can pen 3 squads at once. Yes since the brits they do have better late game but that if you have a brit partner.

I was simply laughing at how many are trying to create the idea that axis is completely worthless in 2v2 when they are not and plenty capable and imo there late game is still better even considering the brits plus they have a much better early game as well than they use to. sure a piat blob can counter and ele or cmd panther in a way but thats assuming that there not going to try and stop me from running my piat blob up to there elephant and letting me destroy it. everything is situational of course.

the UKF armored car and USF Stuart or the soviet T70 (or SU76), totally own the P2... and the 222..... and Rifles and Brit infantry sections beat volks when upgraded with Lmgs... I honestly dont know what youre talking about lol.

Oh and... The vickers is better than the MG42 and can actually clear buildings...... and the maxim suppresses faster and has a 6man crew so doesnt die in 1 mortar shot.


1 firefly (with tulips), and 3 Jacksons (about the same fuel as an Ele and a cmd Panther) can beat it, if played properly.

the UKF armored car and USF Stuart or the soviet T70 (or SU76), totally own the P2... and the 222..... and Rifles and Brit infantry sections beat volks when upgraded with Lmgs... I honestly dont know what youre talking about lol.

Oh and... The vickers is better than the MG42 and can actually clear buildings...... and the maxim suppresses faster and has a 6man crew so doesnt die in 1 mortar shot.


1 firefly (with tulips), and 3 Jacksons (about the same fuel as an Ele and a cmd Panther) can beat it, if played properly.

Disclaimer: i don't agree with what Rocket says.

Light vehicles:
Show Spoiler

MG:
Show Spoiler

Ele + Cmnd PV vs Jackson + Firefly (tulips):
Why would you go for an Ele on a non linear map? This basically removes any "traditional" flanking option as well as any surprise factor since scope (most popular Ele option) + Cmnd PV vision is huge. Praying for the Tulips to hit is mostly a 1 trick pony, same as relying on Jackson (which can get 1 shot by Ele + mark vehicle).
Why not RET zooks or RE Piats "blob" (with just 2 you can push both tanks away).
Ele/JT are issues only when you bottleneck yourself with heavies without access to medium tanks (basically relying on call in) and fell on both the infantry aspect and the artillery one.

I know that the rant of some Axis fanboys here is way too much over the edge but I honestly think that you have to be a fool to say that Axis and Allies are on the absolute same level in terms of winning possibility right now.

If you simply ignore all Katitof + Australian Magic posts, I think this board can develop some very interesting conversations. Sadly there are no many topics where they are not.

Wait wait wait.... 1st off, I'm confused, confuddled and nuzzled.

I Katitof was a Allied Fanboy not axis

And I don't understand I can reason with Katitof perfectly fine here and at the """"""Official""""" forums for years. I don't see why everyone dislikes him so immensely compared to some other unnamed people around here.

But let me answer the OP

The main problem 2v2 has for the most part is double LMGs. limit those and the Axis should have much more breathing room for the most part.

ofcourse a few other small tweaks here and there on both sides wouldn't hurt COUGH222fuelcostCOUGH

Wait wait wait.... 1st off, I'm confused, confuddled and nuzzled.

I Katitof was a Allied Fanboy not axis

And I don't understand I can reason with Katitof perfectly fine here and at the """"""Official""""" forums for years. I don't see why everyone dislikes him so immensely compared to some other unnamed people around here.

But let me answer the OP

The main problem 2v2 has for the most part is double LMGs. limit those and the Axis should have much more breathing room for the most part.

ofcourse a few other small tweaks here and there on both sides wouldn't hurt COUGH222fuelcostCOUGH

I "dislike" katiof not for his fanboism (wich is really low) but for the fact that : he doesn't give his opinion,like to back thing with stats but never show them all, is the opposite of a constructive person and generally point to close post quickly ,and sometimes (when you prove him wrong) he just ignore you
But yea he is a good person but i always imagine him as the grumpy cat really never saw him say something positive

I stop playing in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3. Now play just 4v4 (because the bigger battle) as okw and having bad times, more looses than chances of win...

I'm frickin' amazed you did not mention brit players who use heavy fortifications. When I try to play axis in 2v2 it seems like no matter which faction I pick, if a brit player gets a hold of a good position for just a minute or so it's over, because he will put bofors and mortar pits up and then spam FREE recon from the bren carrier. Maybe this is just karma for me playing to much allies..

I'm frickin' amazed you did not mention brit players who use heavy fortifications. When I try to play axis in 2v2 it seems like no matter which faction I pick, if a brit player gets a hold of a good position for just a minute or so it's over, because he will put bofors and mortar pits up and then spam FREE recon from the bren carrier. Maybe this is just karma for me playing to much allies..

You deserve it Minnie, with your demo and your Guards Motor

But yeah, have been seeing it a lot too. By the time you get a stuka to finish 2 emps after brace, they've got a ton of fuel and ofc just rebuild them.

Not totally OP but forces an arty fest game that isn't much fun

You deserve it Minnie, with your demo and your Guards Motor

n

Lol I know xD

Edit: posting error from my phone

Infantry game is f*cked up for good imo:

• Double LMGs are too powerful compared to vanilla factions infantry upgrade.
  
• USF and UKF veterancy are too powerful too. As Dane said: too much received accuracy bonus. Veteran allied infantry no longer needs cover to fight.
  
  
• 4 men (die fast) AT infantry drops faster against tanks like T34/85 than they could aim with their weapon.
  
• Light tank rampage
  
• Random "hands-free" mortar squadwipes. Especially that nonsense T0 USF mortar with its turbo-barrage and sniper auto-fire mode.
  
  
• OKW raketens aim time, accuracy (constantly hits the ground) and a medium tank can easily wipe it out frontally.
  
• OKW needs to reach T1 immediately, because EVERYTHING is locked behind T1. The garbage MG34, the flame nade, the panzerfaust... In case an OKW player finds himself against a UKF Bren in early game, he either constantly bleeds while fighting against it, or builds that sh*tty raketen for 270MP.
  
  
• Bren flamer damage and range rebalance needed...

Infantry game is f*cked up for good imo:

• Double LMGs are too powerful compared to vanilla factions infantry upgrade.
  
• USF and UKF veterancy are too powerful too. As Dane said: too much received accuracy bonus. Veteran allied infantry no longer needs cover to fight.
  
  
• 4 men (die fast) AT infantry drops faster against tanks like T34/85 than they could aim with their weapon.
  
• Light tank rampage
  
• Random "hands-free" mortar squadwipes. Especially that nonsense T0 USF mortar with its turbo-barrage and sniper auto-fire mode.
  
  
• OKW raketens aim time, accuracy (constantly hits the ground) and a medium tank can easily wipe it out frontally.
  
• OKW needs to reach T1 immediately, because EVERYTHING is locked behind T1. The garbage MG34, the flame nade, the panzerfaust... In case an OKW player finds himself against a UKF Bren in early game, he either constantly bleeds while fighting against it, or builds that sh*tty raketen for 270MP.
  
  
• Bren flamer damage and range rebalance needed...

RIP Axis

This isn't specific to 2vs2 games, but one of the most "wrong" things which also apply for team games in this game is that mortars/isgs and pack howies can be so effective compared to the effort you need to put into using them. The amount of damage/micro tax on your opponent is far too much when compared to the actual effort put in by the player that is using them. The mortar pit takes this to an extreme where you don't even need to retreat, reinforce and reposition anymore. Instead you repair and brace every once in a while.

I would like all indirect auto-firing weapons to have their auto-fire accuracy, frequency and scatter nerfed heavily, but leave the barrage properties mostly untouched. This would reward players that use barrage often and discourage a set-up-and-forget or build-and-go-afk mentality. Remember that barrage is cast on a point and that point will be the only point being barraged until you order something else, thus making it dodgeable by moving after a mortar round is being hit and you notice that your opponent is using his barrage. This becomes a game of forcing repositions and repositioning early/preemptively/reactionary according to the situation.

The aim is to put mortars into their correct role for denying support weapons and garrisons/emplacements. Currently (imho) mortars are doing that kinda fine, but (big PLUS) they contest all units that are stationary for more than 4-ish seconds. The main victims are obviously infantry sections and grenadiers. You can't just repositon because you noticed that a barrage is coming in. Instead, the mortar is autofiring, which is shooting too accurate single mortar shells every ~4 seconds. You just can't account for that and reposition in these intervals. As I said, sections and grens suffer the most from this, but when applied to a large scale game like 2v2+, this creates a very volatile game pace/environment where units are forced to move constantly and this eventually promotes moving around constantly and eventually end up blobbing.

I believe that this is a large contributor towards the lower axis winrates that we are seeing these days. Basically the niche and strength of stationary and low model count units is being condensed to a point where it is barely or very hardly exploitable and on the other hand flanking/constant clusterfuck (what allies are just better at) is being promoted.

This is further embraced by the strength of late game indirect fire but this is not the focus of my post.

just my 2 cents

This isn't specific to 2vs2 games, but one of the most "wrong" things which also apply for team games in this game is that mortars/isgs and pack howies can be so effective compared to the effort you need to put into using them. The amount of damage/micro tax on your opponent is far too much when compared to the actual effort put in by the player that is using them. The mortar pit takes this to an extreme where you don't even need to retreat, reinforce and reposition anymore. Instead you repair and brace every once in a while.

I would like all indirect auto-firing weapons to have their auto-fire accuracy, frequency and scatter nerfed heavily, but leave the barrage properties mostly untouched. This would reward players that use barrage often and discourage a set-up-and-forget or build-and-go-afk mentality. Remember that barrage is cast on a point and that point will be the only point being barraged until you order something else, thus making it dodgeable by moving after a mortar round is being hit and you notice that your opponent is using his barrage. This becomes a game of forcing repositions and repositioning early/preemptively/reactionary according to the situation.

The aim is to put mortars into their correct role for denying support weapons and garrisons/emplacements. Currently (imho) mortars are doing that kinda fine, but (big PLUS) they contest all units that are stationary for more than 4-ish seconds. The main victims are obviously infantry sections and grenadiers. You can't just repositon because you noticed that a barrage is coming in. Instead, the mortar is autofiring, which is shooting too accurate single mortat shells every ~4 seconds. You just can't account for that and reposition in these intervals. As I said, sections and grens suffer the most from this, but when applied to a large scale game like 2v2+, this creates a very volatile game pace/environment where units are forced to move constantly and this eventually promotes moving around constantly and eventually end up blobbing.

I believe that this is a large contributor towards the lower axis winrates that we are seeing these days. Basically the niche and strength of stationary and low model count units is being condensed to a point where it is barely or very hardly exploitable and on the other hand flanking/constant clusterfuck (what allies are just better at) is being promoted.

This is further embraced by the strength of late game indirect fire but this is not the focus of my post.

just my 2 cents

Exactly... i have 100% agree with this!

In one of my latest games i had to realize the mortar flare ability on soviet mortars are more useful than the barrage. I just dropped a flare, give sight for my mortars auto-fire, and they were so accurate i don't even had to control them at all. It's just shocking how could it be so rewarding with basically zero-control. You just have to put them in range, and give them sight.

The fact that OKW has no early game - cheap mortars is a serious handicap.

Exactly... i have 100% agree with this!

In one of my latest games i had to realize the mortar flare ability on soviet mortars are more useful than the barrage. I just dropped a flare, give sight for my mortars auto-fire, and they were so accurate i don't even had to control them at all. It's just shocking how could it be so rewarding with basically zero-control. You just have to put them in range, and give them sight.

The fact that OKW has no early game - cheap mortars is a serious handicap.

Same with 222+spotting scopes. It's at a point where doing it and playing against is almost equally frustrating and cheap. I guess you just need a high tolerance for bullshit and just carry on.

Same with 222+spotting scopes. It's at a point where doing it and playing against is almost equally frustrating and cheap. I guess you just need a high tolerance for bullshit and just carry on.

Fortunately the Allies have a butt ton of ways to deal with loght vehicles including piats zooks ptrs guards Stuart aec t70 turbo mortar (actually really good vs vehicles lol). The 222 is the best thing ostheer has going for it in 2s these days imho.

Fortunately the Allies have a butt ton of ways to deal with loght vehicles including piats zooks ptrs guards Stuart aec t70 turbo mortar (actually really good vs vehicles lol). The 222 is the best thing ostheer has going for it in 2s these days imho.

The fact that you conclude that tells us a lot about Ostheer