stuart and t70 cost vs okw luch and okw puma

- Literally get rid of splash damage on T-70/Stuart imo. Maybe then give them an accuracy buff. Basically they should semi-reliably kill one model at a time.
- Give T-70 400 health and remove self-repair.
- Make the Stuart's abilities require Veterancy 1 to use.
- Increase Luchs fuel cost to 70 (just so they all cost the same lol) and change its Veterancy 1 ability to something different. Nerf its veterancy suppression bonus.
- Fuel cost of AEC/Stuart/T-70/Luchs/Puma to ~350 manpower.

I wish we could have a proper anti tank gun

Ya, just this is derailing the topic isn't it? This is about okw light tanks being somewhat inferior to allied. Am I wrong?

- Literally get rid of splash damage on T-70/Stuart imo. Maybe then give them an accuracy buff. Basically they should semi-reliably kill one model at a time.
- Give T-70 400 health and remove self-repair.
- Make the Stuart's abilities require Veterancy 1 to use.
- Increase Luchs fuel cost to 70 (just so they all cost the same lol) and change its Veterancy 1 ability to something different. Nerf its veterancy suppression bonus.
- Fuel cost of AEC/Stuart/T-70/Luchs/Puma to ~350 manpower.

If you make Stuart abilities tied to vet, could you reduce the blind shot cost?

- Make the Stuart's abilities require Veterancy 1 to use.

stuart doesn't have smoke like the puma does. just remove the movement stun and make it disable gun only.

Just make everything the same. Lol this fucking thread.

Just make racketenwerfer less shit.

"Let me just show you with one example how your data and statistics are wrong..."

"Let me just show you with NO examples how your data and statistics are wrong..."

See? I can do it too!

Ya, just this is derailing the topic isn't it? This is about okw light tanks being somewhat inferior to allied. Am I wrong?

I think the thread should be that the allied LV's have far to much impact against the okw.
The problem is not the okw lv's they are fine in fact. Though im am in favour of buffing the puma long penetration from 80 to 100.

But if you go mech you are fucking yourself over. it will delay your ability to build obers. No obers means that your vg are just providing vet to the way better and and superior scaling allied mainline infantry. Not to mention you have no healing what so ever.

If you tech to obers the allied light tanks are just going to rampage. Basically you are screwed either way.

I think the thread should be that the allied LV's have far to much impact against the okw.
The problem is not the okw lv's they are fine in fact. Though im am in favour of buffing the puma long penetration from 80 to 100.

But if you go mech you are fucking yourself over. it will delay your ability to build obers. No obers means that your vg are just proving vet to the way better and and superior scaling allied mainline infantry. Not to mention you have no healing what so ever.

If you tech to obers the allied light tanks are just going to rampage. Basically you are screwed either way.

Puma is fine, and actually pretty good.

also you are not "fucking yourself" with mechanized since the 3 units in it are amazing at what they do.

Sure I love obers too, but the current volks can really stand for themselves, I only call obers to replace any volks that got wiped.

the "no healing" is a blatant lie, volks get auto heal at vet 3 and if you don't have vetted your sturms at the 5-6 minute mark you are using them wrong.

If you go obers allied LV won't "rampage" since you have mines, ATG and fausts to deal with it.

It appears that you have 88 games as Axis and 847 games played as Allies.


I believe this may be skewing your perspective about the game and the units contained therein.

I think that the light-vehicle wiping-machines of doom is part of a bigger cycle of abuse that involves many features in CoH2. This cycle of abuse involves:

- Panzershrecks/Zooks having 0 aim time, homing projectiles, at long range with guaranteed good damage vs tanks
- Tank projectiles having to put up with collisions with elevation/fences/etc
- Instead, tanks make up for this with ridiculously good crush that cuts through squads like hot knife-through butter (esp Cromwell/M10)
- Every single infantry squad having cheap, always-available snares to counter crushing
- Light vehicles having to dodge Schrecks/fausts and still be able to deal consistent damage at long range
- The fact that retreating squads can't faust back, which means that retreating with a light-vehicle on your heels = guaranteed wipe

Obviously, if light vehicles can't perform even adequately well against infantry with snares, you might as well write them off.

In contrast, CoH1 had cut the following balance:
- Schrecks had longish aim, could be dodged, dealt only moderate amount of damage, and might not even penetrate
- This meant that Tanks vs Schreck blobs fighting each other at long range wouldn't end well for the blob
- Moreover, crushing infantry with tanks meant that the tank would get slowed down, exposing it to enemy fire
- Since crushing wasn't BS strong, infantry had no need for snares* to deter yolo-rushing tanks
- Since infantry had no snares, light vehicles could remain lethal vs persistent enemy, without having to be lethal to them on retreat**.

* USF infantry did have snares, but they were very difficult to pull off (had long aim time, like the schrecks)
Brit infantry had BS strong button. However, everything about CoH1 Brits was cancerous (sadly some of those features metastasized to CoH2 Brits/OKW)
** The only exception to vehicle lethality was Panzer Elite 222. That was bullshit strong.

I am not saying that CoH1 is the only way to do things. However, I am saying that the Schreck vs Tank-cannon imbalance may, just as well, be the root-cause of what players are experiencing currently.

the "no healing" is a blatant lie, volks get auto heal at vet 3 and if you don't have vetted your sturms at the 5-6 minute mark you are using them wrong.

Sturm healing actually requires camera focus and actually a lot of micro for a basic feature that should, really, be done automatically - one way or another. It even manages to be even worse than Tommy healing in that regard.

That's a lot of time - and attention - that you could have spent commanding the other parts of the battlefield.

It appears that you have 88 games as Axis and 847 games played as Allies.


I believe this may be skewing your perspective about the game and the units contained therein.

Yeah, AUTOMATCH games, and yet I got better winrates with them. Too bad the game doesn't count the hundreds of private games I play as axis.

Sturm healing actually requires camera focus and actually a lot of micro for a basic feature that should, really, be done automatically - one way or another. It even manages to be even worse than Tommy healing in that regard.

That's a lot of time - and attention - that you could have spent commanding the other parts of the battlefield.

Are you seriously complaining about a minuscular micro increase on a faction that already require very little to begin with? And if microing is too hard for you then you can just pay for the super medics (as far as I remember OKW medics are by far the best healers in the game.)

Your statements in this thread alone are so obviously biased, it is almost funny:

After:

Luchs is by far the best light tank in the game.

T70 is pure trash

you get volks with stg that are imba against anything that isn't elite infantry

Yeah, AUTOMATCH games, and yet I got better winrates with them. Too bad the game doesn't count the hundreds of private games I play as axis.



Are you seriously complaining about a minuscular micro increase on a faction that already require very little to begin with? And if microing is too hard for you then you can just pay for the super medics (as far as I remember OKW medics are by far the best healers in the game.)

Where in fact there was supposed to be a buff to OKW healing that was not implemented. And by 'you can just pay for the super medics' you mean the 55 fuel and 450 MP?

Yeah, AUTOMATCH games, and yet I got better winrates with them. Too bad the game doesn't count the hundreds of private games I play as axis.



Are you seriously complaining about a minuscular micro increase on a faction that already require very little to begin with? And if microing is too hard for you then you can just pay for the super medics (as far as I remember OKW medics are by far the best healers in the game.)

USF ambulance healtime:

5 squads all 49.9% - 100% health 20 seconds

OKW healtime:

5 squads all 49.9% - 100% health 80 seconds

Are you seriously complaining about a minuscular micro increase on a faction that already require very little to begin with? And if microing is too hard for you then you can just pay for the super medics (as far as I remember OKW medics are by far the best healers in the game.)

Firstly: I'm not sure what OKW healing has anything to do with this thread; at all.

Secondly, your assumption that OKW requires less micro than the other factions in the early game is baseless and false. All factions require equal parts of garrison-jumping in the early game (i.e., definitely well until OKW MedHQ can come up AFTER the Mech truck).

How are you supposed to building-hop 2 squads decently, like a raving lunatic, if you constantly have to pan the camera back and forth to the HQ just to pick up the crates? Get real.

Firstly: I'm not sure what OKW healing has anything to do with this thread; at all.

Indirectly, when comparing tech costs for light vehicles it was argued to somehow factor in the lack of healing that comes with the choice of building Mech HQ instead of Battlegroup.

USF ambulance healtime:

5 squads all 49.9% - 100% health 20 seconds

OKW healtime:

5 squads all 49.9% - 100% health 80 seconds

That is a rather inadequate comparison since no one will ever have 5 injured squads retreating at the same in any half decent game

If one compares the heal times for 1 or 2 squads which is about the amount that will be at base in a normal game, the okw healing does very nicely.

That is a rather inadequate comparison since no one will ever have 5 injured squads retreating at the same in any half decent game

If one compares the heal times for 1 or 2 squads which is about the amount that will be at base in a normal game, the okw healing does very nicely.

While that is true, it is situational. Aura healing is more powerful the more squads you heal concurrently just saying that one is better than the other is also not correct. I brought up healing to include the disadvantage of having no proper healing to some extent into the decision to build a luchs or puma. Can we go back to that point?

Puma is fine, and actually pretty good.

its decent and a bit cost ineffective in its tank hunter role.

also you are not "fucking yourself" with mechanized since the 3 units in it are amazing at what they do.

i cannot replace my vg's with luchs mate. And its infantry that does most of the work in the game.

Sure I love obers too, but the current volks can really stand for themselves, I only call obers to replace any volks that got wiped.

no they cannot. and 1 look at the stats shows the reason why they cannot compete. baseline they are already 20 % less effective then grens their vet is rubbish and their upgrade is significantly weaker then the bar upgrade

the "no healing" is a blatant lie, volks get auto heal at vet 3 and if you don't have vetted your sturms at the 5-6 minute mark you are using them wrong.

Have you ever considered the time and ammo this requires? sure a quick fix on the field is useful but its not going to replace medics ever.

If you go obers allied LV won't "rampage" since you have mines, ATG and fausts to deal with it.

i generally don't lose my lv's to mines or pupchen as they are to mobile. they also give the allied player a tremendous amount of initiative. an attack in a sector where your puchpen is not stationed means you will lose the sector if the attack is supported by a bulletproof AV. its also useful stopping offensives and bleed the axis player dry of mp.

Make the T-70 not able to splash more than 2 models. Still lethal, but not death to squads in cover that it gets around and a tad bit more MP. Should still be good AI due to its timing, but not able to knock a squad to 1/2 life of they happened to be bunched.
And I agree with elchino, make Stuarts less lethal to infantry, but also a tad bit more MP at 280 from 240. Also Stuart is hardly useless. It can still counter-harass and stop tanks from diving in or properly engaging with its abilities.

Also consider OKW will bleed more if you go mech opening (no medic) and acces to panzershreck means you have to get 2 spio squads (300mp) because no sweeper vs Soviets is suicide.
In the past rakketen wasnt so important since OKW had shreckblob to fend off enemy armor but since that is removed OKW struggles vs armor, I would trade all the gimmick rakketen features (garrison, cloak, retreat) for a proper AT gun that doesnt can get one shotted by the T70 and its slow aimtime..
I do agree with Miragefla his proposal.

Plus One