Why Blobbing is so Prominent in Coh2

Seriously dude... Blobbing? in COH2?
COH and DOW is the least blobbing game in RTS, would u look at Starcraft and Warcraft series... that's blob

extreme agreements on FRP and LMG.

Seriously dude... Blobbing? in COH2?
COH and DOW is the least blobbing game in RTS, would u look at Starcraft and Warcraft series... that's blob

It is, but in other RTS, blobbing is an inherent part of the gameplay.
He basically says (or so I understood) that blob is currently an anti-mechanic in coh 2 right now and that it should be turned in a way that blob is still possible as a strategic choice with pros/cons and not a desperate or mindless move that has unbalanced rates of success.


It's not entirely false, I seriously think that relic has hit a difficult balance matter on that, because the changes they made in coh 2 (from coh 1) are already attempts to lower blobbing and give reliable counters.

It would be nice if factions weren't necessarily identical, but had more than a single type of non-doctrinal infantry that plays different roles. Wehr and Soviets have that in Grens/Cons and penals/Pgrens, but the problem w/ WFA is that there are volks and rifles.

Blobbing w/ Airborne co. is good; pathfinders for sight, airobrne w/ m1919s and a crazy BAR blob w/ Jacksons behind it is good.

Volks blobs aren't as cancerous as they used to be thanks to the removal of the schreck but the sturmpioneer does too much w/ the Schreck, Sweeper, and Flamethrower.

I for one would like to see an added importance to cover and a higher lethality in general, with less emphasis on infantry veterancy. That would make coh2 more like it's original form, showing the brutal eastern front and whatnot. An increase in lethality and better suppression platforms would help a lot, I think, in dealing with the blobberino.

I think you identified all of it, except for handheld AT (including snares)

To me this is lmgs and frp: Cause, why bother flanking an MG when you can acquire a critical mass of lmg troops and take it from the front? And, if that fails, rinse and retreat.

It would be also useful to have a look at soviets and see why blobbing really doesnt work for them (excluding the new penals). Basically it' a combo of lacking the tools to properly blob, and also not having to worry about facing the threats that encourage blobbing.

Regarding demo charges, I would makw it so that each affected soldier in the blast radius only has a 50% (or something) chance of dying.
- If the enemy is going blob-capping, they stand to lose a lot of manpower (but rarely get any wipes)
- Otherwise sending a single squad means you will lose very little.
- adjust price as necessary

Before analyzing game mechanisms that potentially help your vision of blobbing, it would be great to give us a definition of Blobbing. Cuz I'm pretty sure yours is different from mine, different other ones.

Exactly, and well put.

I mean, jesus, by the time we're talking about a measly 2 squads going to cap a point, as blobbing, the term has lost all meaning.

This issue is being taken beyond all sense and proportion, being pushed to the point that the game no longer resembles its source material.

The last time I think I actually saw something that could reasonably be called "blobbing", and could reasonably be called a problem, was a mob of 5 or 6 CoH1 para squads all upgraded with RR's being driven en mass around Rails And Metal, vaporising anything that got in its path. That was a problem; CoH2 does not have this problem. There is no problem. Everyone go home.

Why blobbing is so prominent is a direct result from the maps being tiny in a game where indirect fire is the meta. You cannot stay static so you can't play this cute little positional vcoh wehrmacht combined arms type of game everyone dreams it was. You have to press forward to dodge mortars and get to the juicy support units. And if the maps are designed as small as they currently are, relative to the range of most support units, then most of the time your flanking units might only be 1 or 2 squad lengths away. This isn't blobbing. I'm sure there's a lot of players, allies bros included, that look at their enemy's 4-5 squads with support units and tanks as just one big blob and that it lacks finesse. The finesse is in timing and making sure no 2 squads can get suppressed in the same volley by 1 mg. That X distance 2 squads have to be away from each other to not both get suppressed as they're converging on a single point is called micro. If they're close enough to all get suppressed then it's a blob. That's the definition. Likewise, calling out "infantry spam" for allies is also nonsense. Not everyone can be Wehrmacht every game.

The only solution is the issue that Cultist talked about with the bullets.

Remove FRP and most blob problem will perish.

Great post.

One of the biggest changes that had unintended consequences in COH2 from COH1 was to allowing capping in a circle instead of on a point.

That made it a much bigger deal to cap a point. You couldn't just blob across the map, you had to clear a position then take a point and have the 30 seconds to cap it with a squad that wasn't combat effective while capping.

I think they could fix a lot if support weapons simply couldn't cap. The new capping system made the game faster-paced, but made blobbing a lot more effective to take territory.

Why blobbing is so prominent is a direct result from the maps being tiny in a game where indirect fire is the meta. You cannot stay static so you can't play this cute little positional vcoh wehrmacht combined arms type of game everyone dreams it was. You have to press forward to dodge mortars and get to the juicy support units. And if the maps are designed as small as they currently are, relative to the range of most support units, then most of the time your flanking units might only be 1 or 2 squad lengths away. This isn't blobbing. I'm sure there's a lot of players, allies bros included, that look at their enemy's 4-5 squads with support units and tanks as just one big blob and that it lacks finesse. The finesse is in timing and making sure no 2 squads can get suppressed in the same volley by 1 mg. That X distance 2 squads have to be away from each other to not both get suppressed as they're converging on a single point is called micro. If they're close enough to all get suppressed then it's a blob. That's the definition. Likewise, calling out "infantry spam" for allies is also nonsense. Not everyone can be Wehrmacht every game.

The only solution is the issue that Cultist talked about with the bullets.

+1

So many plebs in the COH community that don't even know what a blob is. Hell I even see some people on COH1 that don't know what a blob is. Having lots of infantry isn't a blob, its how the fucking game is played. Support units SUPPORT infantry because they are force multipliers, meaning your support:infantry ratio is low. Now defense is a little different, you can lock down a point with less men if you more heavy weapons, that should go with out saying. But on offense, maneuver is king, and you aren't breaking through with diversity for the sake of diversity. I hate to bursts some peoples bubbles, but a typical skirmish in WW2 did not consist of 3 machine guns, 3 mortars, a sniper, 2 AT guns, 3 regular infantry, two "elite" infantry, a couple tanks, several engineers, artillery, and a "officer" squad. Realistically and practically speaking it would be 80% or more regular infantry, <20% other shit.

Theres some valid problems with the game that promotes blobbing a bit too much, but it also gets conflated with a bunch of people on here that don't even know the difference between blobbing and smart play. Managing to sneak 4 or 5 infantry behind a group of support weapons and stealing them all is not a blob, its a good flank. No serious discussion can be had about fixing "blobbing" in a public forum, this is an issue for the someone with experience like DevM, Budwise, etc. to hash out....which will never happen anyway because Relic is not committed to bold big changes to the game.

Forgive me, I only read a few lines, but the problem is that you have your perspectives skewed up and your darkest shades on.

Red Alert has blobbing. People Crying "blob" in CoH when they see four units of the same kind simply need to take a deep breath. Make your own game where every unit has a heavy tank restriction of one at a time.

Blame small maps and LMG spam + FRP, in SU vs OH matchup tries A-move blobbing and see how you can win the game.

People Crying "blob" in CoH when they see four units of the same kind simply need to take a deep breath.

Sure, some people cry blob too fast. but still, the thing is, that microintensive strategies like splitting your squads up, flanking, harassing everywhere, etc dont give the an increased reward proportional to the increased difficulty

it all comes down to the dumbdown of resource management. Zones are less important and faster to capture, map control hardly matters in coh2 compared to vcoh.

Forgive me, I only read a few lines, but the problem is that you have your perspectives skewed up and your darkest shades on.

Red Alert has blobbing. People Crying "blob" in CoH when they see four units of the same kind simply need to take a deep breath. Make your own game where every unit has a heavy tank restriction of one at a time.

I think blob is when okw get his 2 sp and his 4 volks all upgraded moving as one
If they are 2-3 unit tighter that is not blobing

I don't like the idea of negative zeal because it seems so artificial and visually unintuitive, but increased AoE suppression is something I'll perhaps play around with.

Great original post, agree with everything. Sending one squad out can be like suicide, esp vs demos and t-70. And yeah - forward retreat really minimises the downsides to blobbing.



I like negative zeal though. It's much easier to hit a target when you're firing at a large group than if you're firing at one guy. Would be a direct blob deterrent. Your blob might have more firepower but would also be more susceptible to damage. The bigger the blob, the worse the damage. I'm sure it would motivate players to break up squads a bit.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing your ideas in action in your mod!

it all comes down to the dumbdown of resource management. Zones are less important and faster to capture, map control hardly matters in coh2 compared to vcoh.

Hm. What are the exact effects of map control in vcoh and coh2?

Hm. What are the exact effects of map control in vcoh and coh2?

well map control meant pop cap in vcoh so if you didn't cap you could not have blob

snip

You missed out the biggest factor...

Received accuracy with veterancy.

Especially in the USF and UKF infantry. The received accuracy at vet 3 puts riflemen in an open road with the same cover values as a gren squad in light cover. The RA values mean that allies especially can blob and A+move with little consequences... Which (with the double LMGs) is why gren blobs are far less effective, not to mention their smaller squad size.