Luftwaffe Ground Forces Faction Concept

I like that it's a pretty unique Army that borrows much from the Italians as well as the Germans.

Problem is, OKW already have a Luftwaffe Ground Forces doctrine plus, we've seen the damage assymetrical balance does to the game in terms of unit composition, weapon teams to be exact so I don't know, frankly speaking I'm scared of a heavy and slow mortar that can be easily wiped and an MG in a doctrine again, deja vu much with the LeiG and MG34?

I like that it's a pretty unique Army that borrows much from the Italians as well as the Germans.

Problem is, OKW already have a Luftwaffe Ground Forces doctrine plus, we've seen the damage assymetrical balance does to the game in terms of unit composition, weapon teams to be exact so I don't know, frankly speaking I'm scared of a heavy and slow mortar that can be easily wiped and an MG in a doctrine again, deja vu much with the LeiG and MG34?

The difference is the suppression tool is now literally a flak gun rolled around. Cannot retreat in exchange for.. being a flak gun

I have a suggestion regarding how the Luftwaffe Officer's upgrade system works:

It seems that OP wants it where if you choose the Aggressive Specialization for the tiers, the Officer's abilities are unlocked accordingly. If so, this results ina rather inflexible tech strategy and also leads to unintentional tech unlocks. It's inflexible because if I wanted Forward Retreat instead of Forward Rally, I HAVE to choose Defensive for T4, even if I want to unlock Skirtzen armour.
Solution is a quite simple: instead of this scheme, it works whereby unlocking to T4 allows the Luftwaffe Officer to choose which specializations you want for that squad to work with: if I tech up to T4, I can then immediately choose Forward Rally or Forward Retreat- the choice is independent of my T4 specialization, so I am not forced to either wait for choosing a T4 specialization, nor would that choice result in having an ability I didn't want.

The difference is the suppression tool is now literally a flak gun rolled around. Cannot retreat in exchange for.. being a flak gun

If it's overperforming, noobs complain, Relic nerfs it into oblivion, LGF are left with the doctrine MG being their only cost effective and we'll performing suppression platform. It needs the generic, basic tools which are already proven to work and not be under or over performing, not something which was proved to not work, the Kubel, Flak HF and LeiG come into mind.

Edit: not to mention the USF Pack Howitzer and..50 cal, the former needing a replacement or better yet, alternative while the latter a huge buff.

If it's overperforming, noobs complain, Relic nerfs it into oblivion, LGF are left with the doctrine MG being their only cost effective and we'll performing suppression platform. It needs the generic, basic tools which are already proven to work and not be under or over performing, not something which was proved to not work, the Kubel, Flak HF and LeiG come into mind.

Edit: not to mention the USF Pack Howitzer and..50 cal, the former needing a replacement or better yet, alternative while the latter a huge buff.

For all intents and purposes, it is a moving flak emplacement that doesnt suck as much as the static one.

For all intents and purposes, it is a moving flak emplacement that doesnt suck as much as the static one.

Same was said for the Flak HT, now look at it.

Some more feedback on some specific ideas:

Weapon racks: I don't hate the idea but you can't ignore two factions already have this feature, both being allies, and both being non-doctrinal.
I was thinking of a bit more novel approach that tries to be weapon rack and yet not really:

They are weapon racks as usual, but cost a lot; certain upgrades or teching up however reduces their cost as well as allow units to ugprade in the field; and unlike other weapon racks, allies can use the weapons as well. The only caveat is that these weapons are inferior compared to their equivalents, ie the LMG is weaker than the Grenadiers' LMG42, so the only real reason for the change in weapons is the slightly lower munitions cost, plus the instant upgrade compared with the time to upgrade a unit.
Another more radical approach is that weapons are paradropped in boxes; it's historically similar to how FJs get their weapons, though that's hardly the contextual case in this game, but it allows a different way of getting weapons- and being dropped also allow allies or enemies to pick them up.
As to weapons themselves, I was thinking replacing them with Luftwaffe weapons:
-MG81 for the LMG, which was basically the aircraft mounted MG34, similar stats.
-An AT weapon instead of Modello 38 (hereafter called "M38 SMG" for simplicity). I'm thinking a German AT rifle; the M38 can instead be an different or doctrinal upgrade for units for a close-combat option- any faction will need an AT weapon instead of SMG, after all.

Another idea in regards to weapon racks: there are weapon racks as well as unit upgrades, but they are different. For example, the MG81 and Panzerbuchse for racks, but the units have different upgrades like StG44s or Panzerschrecks, etc. The difference being the racks are cheaper, avaialbe earlier and all sorts of other benefits but ultimately weaker versions of what you can upgrade in the unit panel. If the idea is not good enough, then it can be relegated to doctrinal unlocks; that is to say, choosing certain doctrines allows some units to upgrade to better weapons, but the CP restricts them where you may be better off to get the weaker weapon rack stuff prior to unlocking the doctrinal goodies.

Also a point on doctrinal themes:
Would be neat if the faction, like the British Forces, have a different theme for their doctrinal unlocks. British tend to have multiple powers in a single unlock, for example calling a Crocodile or Recovery Sappers will also throw flares at their target destination. I'm thinking that this faction could have what I call a more modular design to their doctrinal theme.
Some examples come to mind:
-Replacing units or abilities with doctrinal ones: instead of calling in new units, stock units are replaced with doctrinal ones. For a specific example, Italian auxiliaries in an Italian themed doctrine will replace your Luftwaffe Field Troops, the former being cheater but weaker, giving the entire match a different economic layout because your men come faster, cheaper but perform less powerful.
-Replacing upgrades with different ones: most doctrinal upgrades are additions (ie Ostheer's Spotting Scopes), though rarely mutually exclusive (ie OKW's Panzer Commanders); this faction could instead replace certain upgrades entirely, ie weapon racks for X weapon is replaced with Y weapon.
-Special Luftwaffe Officer abilities: Elaborated in some of my earlier posts, certain doctrines adjust, enhance or even replace some of your Luftwaffe Officer's special abilities, like one where using Concentrated Fire is followed by an airstrike frag bombs, compared to another where it instead drops butterfly bombs as landmines. Certain doctrines may not have such specializations but are compensated by focusing on the army as a whole- those doctrines offering Officer enhancements however have a greater focus on using the Officer.
-Modular defensive structures: most emplacements in the game have few upgrades or otherwise specialist in design: this faction however can have a "blank slate" emplacement that, among other things, can be expanded by doctrinal unlocks. For example, a Slit Trench is your basic stock emplacement, but doctrine X lets you upgrade it to a dual machine gun "MG81Z" mount for 360 degrees suppression platform, while doctrine Y lets you upgrade it to a 2cm flakviering for better armour piercing firepower but costs more, and doesn't suppress. A third doctrinal option can make it a 37mm similar to OKW T4, but costs even more, has higher CP, and fires slower. You can also add some additional stuff to those unlocks too; the MG81z can come with tank traps, but the 2cm and 37mm does not, whichever gives best balance. Unless it's some specially defensive, doctrine, it is not possible to have more than one of such options simply by virtue of commander exclusivity (unless you're one of those "need commander that has Tiger and Elefant" types!).
- Certain modular options fit the theme of the commander, for example, defensive themed commanders naturally have more modular options for emplacements, whereas those with a mobility bent will have things like sprint, light weapons and paradrops. Current commanders already are designed around this, but this faction takes it further by changing units and upgrades rather than adding to them.

I don't like the infantry- base troops seem like upgrade reliant Volks, engineers seem to be Sturms. It makes sense to just make engineering part of an upgrade path for the core infantry somehow, building on the flexibility theme.

I like this idea, making a single modular infantry unit kind of like Panzer Elite but various specialized paths depending on unlocks and upgrades. The idea I got was this:

-Like Panzer Elite, there is ONE actual stock unit, but it comes with 2-3 free upgrade paths depending on what is available in design and commander unlock. You got builder path and combat path; further paths can be obtained via weapon racks (ie LMGs make them good long range combat) or doctrines (a commander allows SMG upgrade alongside builder or combat path).
-A more versatile set of basic capabilities, for example all variants can repair stuff, but only the ones you have upgraded to dedicated builders will be best at them, and certain doctrinal unlocks involving repairing. building stuff would only benefit your builders
-Upgrade paths determine a large amount of what this unit can do: upgrade the squad to combat and they can't repair as fast nor can they build emplacements besides basic sandbags or wires etc. The upgrade paths can be free so as not to have a tremendous economy burden; instead of starving yourself of resources trying to get builders, you are pressed for time.
-This sense of versatility might actually be a bit historically fitting, given that a lot of Luftwaffe ground troops were just re-purposed air and ground crews with little combat training.
-In contrast, call-in units like Fallschirmjaegers, whilst still having rather versatile in combat abilities, are the best fighting squads you have.

I also think the officer should be the cornerstone of the army, and that "specializations" should just be fuel based upgrades like with the Brits.

More on the officer: it would be neat if he could give off different kinds of auras depending on his level/upgrade/doctrine, like a "Zeal" aura where units fight harder but die faster, or a "construction" aura where buildings and repairs and maybe capturing are done faster. Slap him in a 250 Halftrack and you have a solid commander that can zip around buffing different parts of the army at ease.

I would make the officer less about active abilities and more about passive ones, and auras.

I like this idea as well, it requires less micro on a single "hero" unit's special abilities, but still gives him a versatile support role for the entire army all throughout a match, rather than the CoH equivalent to a Space Marine Force Commander. And those special abilities can also just be divvied up and relegated to doctrinal unlocks, ie Entrenchment Doctrine allows him to set up retreat point while an assault-based commander lets him use Concentrated Fire.

EDIT: an additional note regarding my Hetzer/ Marder comments:

In terms of historicity, the Marder III was more of a stopgap/ economic complement to more capable tank destroyers, so it could fill the same doctrinal role as the M10 does for M36- the Hetzer can camouflage, can upgrade to top gunner, and moves faster; the Marder as doctrinal call-in is available earlier, cost less, but less maneuverable/fires slower and more fragile.
If you REALLY want it to be an either/or choice, you can always apply the unit swap doctrinal theme I mentioned earlier, and have the Marder replacing the Hetzer if you choose the appropriate commander; you got the unit swapping thing going, yet without the inflexibility of the other abilities to consider.

tl;dr

but a more honest post now: why do you put so much work into such things? stuff like this will never happen

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm working on some other stuff atm but might make some changes in the future. Cheers.

but a more honest post now: why do you put so much work into such things? stuff like this will never happen

because its fun think of new concepts that can work. In my opinion atleast.

I know that a large chunk of people would be against my HGK italian-german faction for the sole reason of being 1944-1945 germany + italian remnants. But I didn't really care.

Also, a man can only dream.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm working on some other stuff atm but might make some changes in the future. Cheers.

This faction is gud stuff.

because its fun think of new concepts that can work. In my opinion atleast.

I know that a large chunk of people would be against my HGK italian-german faction for the sole reason of being 1944-1945 germany + italian remnants. But I didn't really care.

Also, a man can only dream.



This faction is gud stuff.

Dunno why people complain either, design is 10x better than OKW.

reminds me of those people who say people waste time playing video games (but commend their kids doing real work without knowing they are video game developers).