Let's Talk: ISG Performance

Today I'm going to talk about the ISG for OKW.

Snip

Re-reading your post i've come up with a very interesting idea flavorwise.

What if we make the Leig a direct fire assault gun? With a range slightly longer than the bofors, firing in a cone in a direct arc fashion, with very powerful heat rounds.

Think brumbar, not that powerful in AOE, a bit more range, able to counter static positions and garrisons while not being really an indirect AFK mortar. It would require micro and skill to use, but would give OKW something very new to play with, and with enough punch to make a dent.

The strengths of the unit are:
- Its insane range
- The fact that its vertical scatter caps at range 50
- Its already low angle (horizontal) scatter (equal to the pack howitzer)

While every mortar's scatter area (inaccuracy) continues to grow quadratically until their max range, the scatter area le_IG grows only linearly from range 50 onwards. This "feature" is what gives le_IG its characteristic insane-range pinpoint accuracy.

In fact, this early cap also causes the ISG to take only a 25% hit to its accuracy when firing into the Fog of War (as opposed to ~50% for other artillery pieces). If you do the math, an ISG firing into the Fog of War will still be more accurate than mortars firing with somebody spotting for them.

The downsides of the unit are:
- the most awkward Vet2 bonus, ever.
- Its puny AoE

The unit probably needs a change because it looks a lot like the Mortar Pit:
- It is annoying as fuck to play against somebody that manages to accumulate 2 or more of these beauties
- When you combine the unit with the OKW trucks AND the Infra-Red HT, it becomes cancer in its purest form.

However, when you don't set out to spam ISGs:
- The unit does not fulfil the roles OKW needs it to fulfil (except when the map/mode favours ISG spam).
- This further diminishes any value OKW T1 even had as a tech tier (apart from medics/forward retreat point).

I am always getting hit very hard when i play against ISG, especially if the opponent goes for two.
Its so damn accurate.
Maybe reduce the range as Miragefla said and increase the AOE but just a little bit.
I believe its fine as it is but a test would be ok.

The LeIG is amazing at field control and defense but ironically kind of crap at actually supporting an assault.

The problem is increasing its AOE is going to make assaulting the gun piece a lot riskier.

Smoke would help a lot in regard to giving the okw an option in attacking, but it should only be given assuming its autofire range got nerfed without an AOE buff.

I am always getting hit very hard when i play against ISG, especially if the opponent goes for two.
Its so damn accurate.
Maybe reduce the range as Miragefla said and increase the AOE but just a little bit.
I believe its fine as it is but a test would be ok.

Oh...a brtitish forces player. Do u fear the ISG against ur mortar emplacment? Want to be more OP? Yeah..than cry after a range nerf.

Unbelievable...why do u think that the german should get more nerfs, while the allies have OP units and buggy units (OP USF mortar) and the germans have a bunch of bullshit units (AA emplacement,Pz4 and halftrack) and buggy units (puppchen dont shot themself on tanks).

Oh...a brtitish forces player. Do u fear the ISG against ur mortar emplacment? Want to be more OP? Yeah..than cry after a range nerf.

Unbelievable...why do u think that the german should get more nerfs, while the allies have OP units and buggy units (OP USF mortar) and the germans have a bunch of bullshit units (AA emplacement,Pz4 and halftrack) and buggy units (puppchen dont shot themself on tanks).

2 LeiG + flak truck was the original mortar + bofor emplacement before the british came along. Just because the British is more guilty of camping, it doesn't make the OKW innocent.

the flak halftrack is made from paper. rilfes can pentrate the half flacktrack..one shot from any AT ..and the halftrack must run with speed.

the bofors and the mortar emplacment from brits are 700% stronger...minimun. bofors can deal with whole armys...

Oh...a brtitish forces player. Do u fear the ISG against ur mortar emplacment? Want to be more OP? Yeah..than cry after a range nerf.

Unbelievable...why do u think that the german should get more nerfs, while the allies have OP units and buggy units (OP USF mortar) and the germans have a bunch of bullshit units (AA emplacement,Pz4 and halftrack) and buggy units (puppchen dont shot themself on tanks).

You are aware that OKW medtruck+flak truck+2x ISG is the original mortar pit and it originates into well before brits were introduced?

You are aware that 100+ range ISG is what ensures mortar pit range not going below 115 range for balance reason as stationary mortar can NOT have shorter range then opposing mobile indirect fire unit?

Where did I say that it needs a nerf? I said it's fine.
Look for it in recent Dane's replays.

Hey man, you didn't say that it needs a nerf but you didn't say it's fine either. Just if they win against 120s so decisively as you suggested I'd conclude they should be weaker or about the same level, right?

Must be this one you're talking about, Barton vs Zarok, double 120, double isg (there is nothing recent with Luvnest):

Pretty nice replay, also goes to support the original point made here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soSx3yoDckE

That is actually a good showcase for the isg's performance currently on a tiny map.

1. So facing heavy maxim spam that is locking down territory, not unlike what miragefla describes here initially (4 maxims 2 engies), Barton decides to also go full retard double isg.

2. Gets them firing at close range and microing them non stop from there to focus fire at the maxims or any other static unit, but mostly map control remains firmly in soviet hands despite model drops. There is always a maxim in the garrison, so Barton cannot take territory, isg does shit to the garrison.

3. Zarock gets his first infantry, guards, then gets two 120s.

4. As soon as barton notices the 120s he starts attacking them, Zarok mainly auto-fires them the entire match at mobile targets, so doesn't get lucky with them, that is normal. Think there is not a single time where he consequently tries to barrage the isgs with his mortars. While the isgs are non stop firing at setup teams, not that much auto fire from what can be seen, with some level of success.

5. You can see at around I think 15 mins, when he looses one of the mortars that he's not paying attention to them at all, just expecting them to do afk work. Then it takes him ages to recrew it and from there on just keeps bot way back in base , no micro from what is visible in the video.

6. So four maxims, 2 engies, 1 guard and by then the usual t-70 lock down 80 percent of the map even against 2 isgs that are microed flawlessly, manage to lock down round 80% of the map for almost 20 minutes.

7. Ostwind arrives and starts to also shoot at all the setup teams, game starts to slowly turn around because Zarok didn't get a counter soon enough, gets his t34/85.... fuel floating as you can imagine.

8. The real winners in this game for Barton are the very well played but also very lucky raketenwerfer sneak attacks, 3 of them.


Anyways, I think it shows that double isgs can counter that lock down situation somewhat currently, but you need to play them really well, needs to be a tiny map like Faymonville, your opponent needs to make mistakes, you need to be lucky to comeback after you break the lockdown.

You are aware that OKW medtruck+flak truck+2x ISG is the original mortar pit and it originates into well before brits were introduced?

You are aware that 100+ range ISG is what ensures mortar pit range not going below 115 range for balance reason as stationary mortar can NOT have shorter range then opposing mobile indirect fire unit?

Pretty sure the mortar pit from coh1 was the original mortar pit.

More importantly lets talk about your analogy...

the flak hq (for 120 fuel), med hq + 2 isgs (at 430 mp a pop) = one mortar pit?

the flak halftrack is made from paper. rilfes can pentrate the half flacktrack..one shot from any AT ..and the halftrack must run with speed.

I think he meant the building Flaktruck (building) not FlakHT.

But PZ4? what makes it BS unit? could you open it up a little?

I think he meant the building Flaktruck (building) not FlakHT.

But PZ4? what makes it BS unit? could you open it up a little?

Thought this discussion was meant to be about whether or not buffing the OKW's ISG as suggested was a relevant option to enable them to deal with early game entrenched armies, no? So what brought us to this post?

Oh...a brtitish forces player. Do u fear the ISG against ur mortar emplacment? Want to be more OP? Yeah..than cry after a range nerf.

Unbelievable...why do u think that the german should get more nerfs, while the allies have OP units and buggy units (OP USF mortar) and the germans have a bunch of bullshit units (AA emplacement,Pz4 and halftrack) and buggy units (puppchen dont shot themself on tanks).

Come down man and take it easy
First, if you look at my player card i have 7 games with UKF.
Second, i didnt say to nerf something, i said that i think the ISG is fine but as the OP said, buff its AOE but nerf only the Range.

i like curreny isg. rarely found it useless in gamemodes i play. its range makes it unique. maybe smoke can be added.

I like that, make it smoke and a tiny bit more damage against buildings and it's fine. No need to get another OP artillery piece for any faction again, just a way to deal with garrisoned MGs will do it for me. BTW. any other way would be fine as well, like Flak HT or Luchs dealing damage to buildings/ garrisoned units would do the trick as well.

Just give the ISG an incendiary shot ability that allows the ISG to deal with garrisons and emplacements but fires only one shot like the ostheer mortar half track.

Just give the ISG an incendiary shot ability that allows the ISG to deal with garrisons and emplacements but fires only one shot like the ostheer mortar half track.

Why so exotic? What's wrong with smoke and some bits of damage like every other faction has? Otherwise, sure, fire will work, too maybe.

Leave it alone ffs.

What about experimenting with smoke grenade and I don't say that lightly, I know OKW have so many grenade types something as simple as swapping the concussion grenade comes to mind though, I think regardless smoke should be a luxury for OKW if your trying to use it aggressively and cost munitions part and parcel of the faction.

If we buff AoE, reduce range, but leave accuracy as it is, it will be fucking OP.

I don't mind smoke or changing veterancy, but other than that, ISG is fine.