Let's Talk: ISG Performance

Jump back to quoted post20 Jul 2016, 01:43 AMGrumpy

Here was Relic's last nerf to the damage profile:

The LeIG and pack howie were toxic to the game back then. They would be again. The LeIG still looks like the scatter is bugged so the accuracy is the same at 100 as at the minimum range. The only thing that you suggested that would be okay is the smoke option. Using smoke to help infantry get close would be okay and add something that OKW lacks.

Jump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 15:10 PMBrassatko

Just watch the first 20 mins of this this and tell me what barton (top notch player) could have done with those isgs on a larger map with more, or more durable garrisons like semosky or arnheim checkpoint or Angoville or whatever without smoke against an experienced maxim spammer. This map is already pretty tiny, hence isg favoring. And still with excellently microing 2 isgs he's more or less locked from resources for 20 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soSx3yoDckE

Jump back to quoted post20 Jul 2016, 02:02 AMVuther

I dunno there's still a lot there which contributed at the time that are now gone...namely the FUCKING SUPPRESSION, JUST REMEMBERING IT RRAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHH

So yeah, an AoE buff like that should still be pretty far from the old cancer. Like miragefla said, the one-shot radius shouldn't really change from his suggestions, it'll just improve the weapon's effectiveness on non-direct hits.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jul 2016, 02:08 AMGrumpy

I watched most of the video. Barton is floating 260 fuel by the 15 minute mark. Is that what you consider locked from resources? Also, Barton has bought 2 isg's. Do top notch players normally buy multiple under-performing units? His first LeIG was averaging about 2 kills/minute. That's a shitload of bleed for the other player. Even without watching the rest of the video, I'm pretty sure that I know how it will turn out.

As for your what-if scenario, you can watch Barton play VonIvan on Angoville. The LeIG's were even better there and that was against VonIvan, who is also rumored to be a top notch player.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jul 2016, 02:17 AMGrumpy

I do agree that the suppression was the worst part, but the last thing that this game needs is better indirect.

If you really think that the LeIG is underperforming, please explain why Barton buys two of them.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jul 2016, 03:28 AMBrassatko

230 fuel and nothing else invested than healing, no MP available to, try to be honest. By the time he manages to set up schwer he's facing T70, SU76 and T34/85 with just raketens to fend off. And Zartok still at 500 VPs.

A good player will still buy isgs against this playstyle because there are no other viable options for OKW. That doesn't mean it's good. 2 kills per minute (while another lie) non stop firing at close range and microed all the time to pick targets? Any other idf unit in the game performs better in the same situation.

Ohh, another alleged game with isgs against maxim spam? Just because a better player still has a slight chance at winning doesn't mean anything. Did you read and understand the original post?

Jump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 20:47 PMFiresparks

the ISG fire in a semi-low arc. Assaulting the gun piece can be dangerous because it travel in an almost direct arc.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jul 2016, 05:51 AMmiragefla

Given its 40 minimum range, and the fact the ISG always needs to fire at a 35 degree angle, minimum, assaulting an ISG isn't that difficult unless you're in a cover-to-cover shoot out, but at that point, all indirect-fire is generally deadly, especially if you're not in heavy cover. It's hardly like the old days where they had a near flat trajectory. The round will always be lobbed in an arc and have a noticeable delay barring any weird stuff like ISGs firing in a near 90 degree angle on some occasions and then missing horribly. Furthermore with a auto-attack range nerf

Jump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 11:42 AMBrassatko

Pretty nice replay, also goes to support the original point made here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soSx3yoDckE

Jump back to quoted post19 Jul 2016, 00:29 AMmiragefla

Today I'm going to talk about the ISG for OKW.

....

Anyways feel free to leave your opinions and comments so we can discuss this. And please note discuss, not random tantrums please, simply because a unit got buffed/changed.

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2016, 03:05 AMGrumpy

Earlier I posted that I didn't think it needed a buff, based largely on watching a couple of Barton's replays. I played a lot with ISG's last weekend and couldn't duplicate Barton's success with them. Sometimes they were okay but a lot of times they were a waste. They're completely worthless against Brit emplacements, and not very good against moving infantry.

The pack howie is in somewhat the same shape. At least it occasionally get wipes. The auto-attack range and attack ground range are inane. It should at least be able to attack ground out to its barrage range.

Jump back to quoted post7 Aug 2016, 18:24 PMDomine

It just has an extremely bad AOE. Costs as much as Pack Howie why being much worse

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 00:17 AMDaciaJC

The ISG costs a solid 50 MP less than the Pack Howitzer (330 vs 380).

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 00:17 AMDaciaJC

The ISG costs a solid 50 MP less than the Pack Howitzer (330 vs 380).

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 07:02 AMKatitof

Its also in lower tier(T1 equivalent vs T2 equivalent).