Make Ostheer lategame great again!

From the guy mainly playing allies, must be really easy to justify each win with "ohh the enemy did not micro good enough but my rifleblob is totally ok". Yes Ost can be rewarding but mainly due to the fact that every single one of your units are so underpowered that every win feels like a miracle.

bad troll

l2p playercard pls

Rifleblobs wont get you anything near the top ladder spots

bad troll

l2p playercard pls

Rifleblobs wont get you anything near the top ladder spots

Sorry, focused on the 2v2... but apart form insults what do you have to offer?

Rifleblobs wont get you anything near the top ladder spots

The best players in the world routinely blob, because it's the best thing to do with USF.

Ostheer doesn't need a 'redesign' or anything radical. Their core design is solid, it's just a few units that are struggling. In particular they have trouble dealing with blobs and maintaining map control under a hail of indirect. To that, what they need in the short term is:

1. Offensive buff to Ostwind
2. Slight pen buff to P4

Anything else would lead to too much power creep. Thus to further address the current situation of allied dominance we need to:

1. Nerf USF mortar ASAP
2. Wait a few weeks for the meta to adjust (bearing in mind that Ostheer received several buffs last patch)

If Ostheer is still struggling after that we can look at some more factors such as dual M1919s, new SU-85, Tiger durability and tech costs.

Ostheer doesn't need a 'redesign' or anything radical. Their core design is solid, it's just a few units that are struggling. In particular they have trouble dealing with blobs and maintaining map control under a hail of indirect. To that, what they need in the short term is:

1. Offensive buff to Ostwind
2. Slight pen buff to P4

Anything else would lead to too much power creep. Thus to further address the current situation of allied dominance we need to:

1. Nerf USF mortar ASAP
2. Wait a few weeks for the meta to adjust (bearing in mind that Ostheer received several buffs last patch)

If Ostheer is still struggling after that we can look at some more factors such as dual M1919s, new SU-85, Tiger durability and tech costs.

It's a little more than just the mortar that's an issue. I consistently run out of gas around t3. I can have 3 vps and both fuels, but rifles blobs with tank support just rek everything in their path.

Ost is pretty much the best well rounded designed faction, and highly only rewards great perfect micro, and the faction itself has a wonderfull synergy between the units in each tier.

Sorry, I had to correct a couple things.

Ostheer is a house of cards that is only braced by the Sniper. Lose the Sniper and it collapses. Again: I could live with the weak early game if Ostheer at least had something to compensate later on. As was intended with the initial design.

The lategame was once strong. Then it was nerfed to the point it was balanced versus Soviets and Amis. Then the Brits were introduced making Ostheer obsolete. And in the recent patch all the Allied lategame TDs were buffed versus heavy equipment (on which Ostheer relied the most) and heavy tanks were nerfed additionaly (no deflection stun, rear armor).

Now don´t act surprised that Ostheer doesn´t work.

Ostheer is a house of cards that is only braced by the Sniper. Lose the Sniper and it collapses. Again: I could live with the weak early game if Ostheer at least had something to compensate later on. As was intended with the initial design.

The lategame was once strong. Then it was nerfed to the point it was balanced versus Soviets and Amis. Then the Brits were introduced making Ostheer obsolete. And in the recent patch all the Allied lategame TDs were buffed versus heavy equipment (on which Ostheer relied the most) and heavy tanks were nerfed additionaly (no deflection stun, rear armor).

Now don´t act surprised that Ostheer doesn´t work.

They don't really work, but it's mainly because of the biggest vulnerability to bad-lucky wipes, they aren't nearly as bad as people say.
I mean, their pioneers are no top-aces, but 42 is the best MG in the game (for symbolicaly 20MP lower cost than it's weaker counterparts), Grens for 240 MP can perfectly hold as long as they start the shootout near cover and on max range and don't need to risk by being forced to go up-close... then they get one-shooted by something, mortar would be good, but now it's badly outshined by that bugged BS of doom in USF arsenal, turbo firing-sniper wrecks sh%ite, but now can be handled because of the excelent received accuracy change, PZgrens may be slighty overpriced but do well... before they get one-shooted, 222s are ridiculously overperforming, Flame halftrack...hm I have to try that one out yet, I guess it depends on arriving quickly enough, Pak is simmilar to UKF AT, then there is PZ4 which really could use a slight fuel decrease, followed by completely unneeded ostwind which I've not seen for quite a while, finishing their T3 by a mighty Stug,... oh, praise the great Stug a nightmare of most Allied tanks. Brumbar arrives bloody late, just like panther, but the squad wipe werfer is often worth the T4. We also have commanders, some of them with excelent stuff like mortar halftrack, some of them with outright broken stuff like the Stuka bomb and lots of them useless. Hmm... yeah, the faction could use a help, but it ain't no defenseless dolly

It's a little more than just the mortar that's an issue. I consistently run out of gas around t3. I can have 3 vps and both fuels, but rifles blobs with tank support just rek everything in their path.

Lol, give me a defensive position with the equal amount of units as your USF blob and tanks, I'll counter it no problem with OST. The moment you walk into my layered MGs or even begin to slow down, feel the rain of pwerfer. Your tanks versus my mines, paks, and Stug.

You can't expect to hold 3 victory points with your units all spread out to win against a force that puts it all into one location. THAT would be imbalanced.

It's a little more than just the mortar that's an issue. I consistently run out of gas around t3. I can have 3 vps and both fuels, but rifles blobs with tank support just rek everything in their path.

Yes, that's why I suggested minor buffs to t3 units. I also don't believe you'd be having problems dealing with US tanks if you hold both fuels. When discussing OH t3 people tend to overlook the Stug and forget just how good it is for the price, especially if you can get some vet on it. That's another reason I suggest a slight buff to the Ostwind, so the Stug can be used to its full potential in the AT role.

It's true that the game has been moving away from axis lategame dominance, but that's a good thing - the whole 'X faction must win in 15 minutes, Y faction must stall to late game' mechanic isn't satisfying and makes it impossible to balance both large and small matches. Of course if a faction is losing their advantage at one point of the game then we need to look at other stages (in this case the mid game) to make up for that.

Problem with StuG is that it's an essentially defensive weapon. You can't really win games with StuGs unless your opponent overextends. Same thing goes for most other tank destroyers in the game.

Oh great, yet another axis whine thread

Problem with StuG is that it's an essentially defensive weapon. You can't really win games with StuGs unless your opponent overextends. Same thing goes for most other tank destroyers in the game.

Combine Stugs with vetted 222 with scope and you will win every engagement against armor.

but 42 is the best MG in the game (for symbolicaly 20MP lower cost than it's weaker counterparts)

Can we finally stop that lie? Would you just take a look at the data once, before posting that bollocks?

No, the MG 42 is not the best MG in the game anymore. The Vickers outclasses it in every aspect, except for the veterancy ability of the MG 42. Using that as an argument to claim that the MG 42 is the best MG in the game is like claiming that the Panzer IV's Blitzkrieg ability makes it the best tank in the entire game. And the .50 cal will easily compete in every aspect now, especially as it is the most mobile MG in the game - and no, that it is locked behind the LT is not an argument, just like the fact that Ostheer has four Tiers to tech is not an argument for anything.

Oh great, yet another axis whine thread

Right, people complaining about the USF mortar is bad enough. Fucking whiners...

The mortar is fine. It's just ostheer babies shocked USF is pitching back

If all LMGs occupied 2 slots and 4 man squads used the more effective British spacing, we'd see a lot of Ostheer's major issues vanish. Combine with a few buffs to their underperforming units like Assgrens or Ostwinds and I think Ostheer would be good to go again.

ostheer need T4 elite infantry

No, the MG 42 is not the best MG in the game anymore. The Vickers outclasses it in every aspect, except for the veterancy ability of the MG 42.

Which is not correct because the 42 suppresses faster.

Which is not correct because the 42 suppresses faster.

True but i do have to say that the allies generally have better tools in removing the hmg's compared to the axis. it got a bit more even but as of late.

Can we finally stop that lie? Would you just take a look at the data once, before posting that bollocks?

No, the MG 42 is not the best MG in the game anymore. The Vickers outclasses it in every aspect, except for the veterancy ability of the MG 42. Using that as an argument to claim that the MG 42 is the best MG in the game is like claiming that the Panzer IV's Blitzkrieg ability makes it the best tank in the entire game.

I'd be inclined to agree with that, as the Vickers ability to snipe models has always made it seem more dangerous, especially considering axis squad sizes.

And the .50 cal will easily compete in every aspect now, especially as it is the most mobile MG in the game - and no, that it is locked behind the LT is not an argument, just like the fact that Ostheer has four Tiers to tech is not an argument for anything.

This I can't agree with at all. Those are completely valid arguments.

The .50cal does have its niceties, but the timing and pacing of units is huge. The LT can be a problematic tier to rush into solely for an MG.