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Grenadier survivability buff - Target priority

7 Jul 2016, 08:01 AM
#1
avatar of Gustybreeze
Patrion 39

Posts: 64

I haven't seen any suggestions in this forum remotely similar to this... In the recent major patch, the 'target priority' of team weapon gunners was lowered "Developer Comments: Team weapon gunners will have the lowest priority to get targeted. Players can still attack the gunner first if they manually target that entity but automatically they will always target the gunner last."

Could this be applied to grens such that low health models receive a reduced target priority, thus reducing RNG model drops?

At the extreme, target priority is set to 0% (or 100%), always avoiding (or aiming) at the lowest (or highest) health model, perfectly distributing damage across the squad members, causing models to survive until they're all down to the last 1 HP, effectively turning the squad into a single 320HP model. This effect could be diluted somewhat to serve as a buff to grens, or some kind of crutch for the odd model that gets injured by the overlapping damage profile of a nearby explosion, who wouldn't then be RNG focus fired in any subsequent fire fights.

For example: (Let's say each gren typically has a 1 in 4 or 25% target priority)
  • Whilst the squad still has 4 members remaining, any members with less than 50% health has a lower chance (10%?) of being targeted (in effect partially distributing the received DPS for the first half off a shoot out)
  • Replace (or combine) Vet 1 medkits with "Draw fire": [Passive bonus] Any squad member with more than 20 health than the others has a 50% chance of being targeted.


    Why grens and not other squad types? Because reasons... Asymmetric balance, alternative to 5th man upgrade, whatever

    Interestingly enough, this is kinda an indirect buff for snipers who then maximise their efficiency by going for the full health models... But it's kind of an indirect nerf to explosive damage based weapons (mortars, tanks, etc) by reducing the chance of a model drop after they've done their damage
aaa
7 Jul 2016, 08:19 AM
#2
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487

only thing grens need is nerf. The only thing they are bad against is riflemen since faction dont have a sniper and t0 mg.
Against cons penals they are as OP as fak. Add to that underpriced mortar underpriced mg heavily underpriced 222. Free riflenades and faust. Faus sucks but molo also sucks still it requires research.
7 Jul 2016, 08:51 AM
#3
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Any squad that's affected by this kind of buff will become extremely difficult to bleed.

I think that the answer to grenadier survivability woes is to start reverting terminator buffs on other factions' infantry.

That's because the more we pile received accuracy buffs, or other kinds of weird survivability buffs to infantry, the more sniper-spam meta will benefit from it.

That's because snipers don't give 2 fucks about cover, survivability bonuses, etc.
7 Jul 2016, 08:53 AM
#4
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

NO NO NO NO...

The ammount wine from nade and mortar insta squad wipes.

Good idea but the area effect weapons would wipe whole squad easier and earlier thus working against the intended.
7 Jul 2016, 09:06 AM
#5
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Bad idea, you'll end with more wipe squad than today.
7 Jul 2016, 09:54 AM
#6
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

Stop suggesting "survivability increasing" for Grens, pls! Grens designed to be "long-range firepower > HP". Cons are vise versa - HP > anyrange firepower. That's what Relic call assymetrical balance. (But that's not balance at all, cos power > HP is more reliable).

Anyway, if Grens gonna get survivability boost, no matter what it will be - cons will have to get firepower boost. For such exchange I agree. And one-side increasing survivability for Grens will just make them OP. Right now they just fine.

P.S. Don't know, why people don't like medkits so much. They can be really helpful, when your squad at frontline get's mortar mine in face, has no models dead but all overdamaged. Spend 20 ammo - and no need to retreat to healing point + HP regen may help in firefight seriously. In any case - medkits > flaremins. First can be useful in real combat, second can't be useful, if you don't use them as buged strucure mine.
7 Jul 2016, 09:56 AM
#7
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Stop suggesting "survivability increasing" for Grens, pls! Grens designed to be "long-range firepower > HP". Cons are vise versa - HP > anyrange firepower. That's what Relic call assymetrical balance. (But that's not balance at all, cos power > HP is more reliable).

Anyway, if Grens gonna get survivability boost, no matter what it will be - cons will have to get firepower boost. For such exchange I agree. And one-side increasing survivability for Grens will just make them OP. Right now they just fine.

P.S. Don't know, why people don't like medkits so much. They can be really helpful, when your squad at frontline get's mortar mine in face, has no models dead but all overdamaged. Spend 20 ammo - and no need to retreat to healing point + HP regen may help in firefight seriously. In any case - medkits > flaremins. First can be useful in real combat, second can't be useful, if you don't use them as buged strucure mine.
you got on a superior lvl of fan boy right by saying that med kit are good they are literally never used NEVER USED
7 Jul 2016, 10:00 AM
#8
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

you got on a superior lvl of fan boy right by saying that med kit are good they are literally never used NEVER USED


Er... what? I use them, pretty often. It helps to keep units at frontline and hold it longer and effective, instead of constant retreat after each shot/blow near to squad.

I only think, that they should be cheaper, 10 ammo would be fine. Or tommymedkits should cost more, cos it's pretty strange, that I have to pay 20 ammo each time when I need to heal 1 squad, while they getting eternal healing ability, free to use, working as aura + that upgrade increases their survivability.

Anyway, medkits are good. Help you to stay alive under fire.
7 Jul 2016, 10:04 AM
#9
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Stop suggesting "survivability increasing" for Grens, pls!
[...]

"Cuz I don't like when you do it"
7 Jul 2016, 10:06 AM
#10
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

I will eat my hat if grenadiers will have 5 man squad.
7 Jul 2016, 10:12 AM
#11
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2016, 10:06 AMNEVEC
I will eat my hat if grenadiers will have 5 man squad.


I could even buy this one if it would come from tier 4, and the 5 guys would be loader without a gun when upgraded to MG42
7 Jul 2016, 10:41 AM
#12
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2016, 10:12 AMJespe


I could even buy this one if it would come from tier 4, and the 5 guys would be loader without a gun when upgraded to MG42


I don't think that's possible from a modding point of view.

Still tho, a British sort of 5th man upgrade would be possible in let's say, T1, or T0, I really don't make a difference. Question is, does it only affect Grenadiers or all Wehrmacht infantry in general, for example Pioneers and Panzergrenadiers would also benefit from this or else this should have a lower cost than the British one since it's only buffing a single squad unlike the British one which is buffing 2.
7 Jul 2016, 10:50 AM
#13
avatar of Jespe

Posts: 190

If it would be all units, well, Pios would be faster to repair, wiping suppressed units and building, Pgrens might just walk next to a troop losing 1 model on the way and killing the other squad.

Why i said tier 4? well because if it would give more life for them in the late game. and IF it would overbuff them that would not be so bad because the impact would come later when there are other thing in hand to kill them.
7 Jul 2016, 11:00 AM
#14
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673


"Cuz I don't like when you do it"


Cuz I don't like, when we have 2 same type units in different factions with different (but equially painful) problems, but people asking to fix only 1 of them... I stand for fair-fixing. Survivability bonus for Grens = Firepower bonus for Cons. That can be only so. 5th men for grens? K, add stock DP-28 or PTRS rifles for Cons, better PTRS, since Penals are hard-AI units.

Again - nothing against increasing survivability for Grens, but only if we also will fix "balancing" weakness of their soviet analog - Cons.

P.S. Am I only one, who think, that it is strange, that when TommyRiflemans have 4 men they cost 280 MP, but when they getting 5th, their full squad still costs... 280 (same for RE with their 210). Maybe it should at least slightly increase, because... I don't know. Getting non-doc 5th men in already ubersquad (top of the line Recived accuracy stat, top of the line firepower) is already powerful thing. Let it be compensated somehow by that.
7 Jul 2016, 11:28 AM
#15
avatar of Pablonano

Posts: 297

it would help more to hold the dps rather than avoid whipping whippes, at the end you will have 4 really low hp grenadier squads that are gona be easy to whippe out
7 Jul 2016, 11:50 AM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Er... what? I use them, pretty often. It helps to keep units at frontline and hold it longer and effective, instead of constant retreat after each shot/blow near to squad.

I only think, that they should be cheaper, 10 ammo would be fine. Or tommymedkits should cost more, cos it's pretty strange, that I have to pay 20 ammo each time when I need to heal 1 squad, while they getting eternal healing ability, free to use, working as aura + that upgrade increases their survivability.

Anyway, medkits are good. Help you to stay alive under fire.
med kit require you to stand still , can't fight , can't be self used, cost 20 mun and requires vet 1 ( med bunker cost 60 mun but last forever )
7 Jul 2016, 11:59 AM
#17
avatar of MissCommissar

Posts: 673

med kit require you to stand still , can't fight , can't be self used, cost 20 mun and requires vet 1 ( med bunker cost 60 mun but last forever )


So, as I said - needs to cost less. And maybe not stand still.

7 Jul 2016, 12:14 PM
#18
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

med kit require you to stand still , can't fight , can't be self used, cost 20 mun and requires vet 1 ( med bunker cost 60 mun but last forever )



You forgot the part where the medkit doesn't even heal 1 unit to full.
7 Jul 2016, 12:56 PM
#19
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Question is, does it only affect Grenadiers or all Wehrmacht infantry in general, for example Pioneers and Panzergrenadiers would also benefit from this or else this should have a lower cost than the British one since it's only buffing a single squad unlike the British one which is buffing 2.
The Pionier spam would be real. 5 men + Flamer on 200mp infantry. :hansWUT:
7 Jul 2016, 13:12 PM
#20
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621



I don't think that's possible from a modding point of view.

Still tho, a British sort of 5th man upgrade would be possible in let's say, T1, or T0, I really don't make a difference. Question is, does it only affect Grenadiers or all Wehrmacht infantry in general, for example Pioneers and Panzergrenadiers would also benefit from this or else this should have a lower cost than the British one since it's only buffing a single squad unlike the British one which is buffing 2.

It is but will take a little effort
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