KT, Why?

Why should schwerer AA be kept free? Why schwerer shouldn't have pop cap, like the officers, making you pay indirectly, regardless if you have use for it or not?

You're trekking a thin ice here

You want to fuel starve OKW even further with side tech

Why should schwerer AA be kept free? Why schwerer shouldn't have pop cap, like the officers, making you pay indirectly, regardless if you have use for it or not?

You're trekking a thin ice here

I don't know, I never mentioned schwerer AA. You tell me why schwerer shouldn't have side tech and pop cap cost.

You want to fuel starve OKW even further with side tech

Have you not met Katitof before?

There is no discussion worth having in this thread. Latch never played a game as any faction other than UKF and he openly stated that Brit emplacement have too many counters.

( 15 + 25 + 15 ) MedHQ + healing
+
( 15 + 50 ) MechanizedHQ
+
( 15 + 120 ) FlakHQ
+
( 310 ) KT
=
565 fuel for kt. Now as if that isn't enough, Latch wants you to DOUBLE any of the sums in this function.


tl;dr fanboys rarely make sense.

Latch has made an analysis about why he believes having all trucks up should be a requirement for a KT. I disagree with his opinion.

Instead, what I tried to do in my post was try to identify where this perceived injustice comes from: This is because the first T4 flak gun comes completely for free. If this injustice wouldn't exist, then nobody would ever give a damn about about whether the KT requires all trucks to have been setup or not.

If you take time to scroll up and read my response, I gave an idea about how OKW Truck-ing could be revamped so that:
- It benefits OKW players equally
- It will not be unfair to other factions that don't have access to truck-tech

You can find that response buried beneath a string of arguments about whether Lieutenant/Captain/T4 are pooping units out in the field.

There is no discussion worth having in this thread. Latch never played a game as any faction other than UKF and he openly stated that Brit emplacement have too many counters.

( 15 + 25 + 15 ) MedHQ + healing
+
( 15 + 50 ) MechanizedHQ
+
( 15 + 120 ) FlakHQ
+
( 310 ) KT
=
565 fuel for kt. Now as if that isn't enough, Latch wants you to DOUBLE any of the sums in this function.
tl;dr fanboys rarely make sense.

I played USF before brits came out and on the odd occasion play as OST. I don't know about you but, I like a challenge hence no OKW play

Simple because it is a call-in tank. No heavy call-in is built from a building including the IS2, 152, Tiger/Ace, Elephant, Croc or Pershing. The tech is merely a requirement not unlike CPs.

I played USF before brits came out and on the odd occasion play as OST. I don't know about you but, I like a challenge hence no OKW play

Thats a pretty dumb statement, how can you know a faction is no challange if you never played it?

Its like saying, the reason I dont climb the Mount everest because its no challange for me....

Instead, what I tried to do in my post was try to identify where this perceived injustice comes from: This is because the first T4 flak gun comes completely for free. If this injustice wouldn't exist, then nobody would ever give a damn about about whether the KT requires all trucks to have been setup or not.

By that logic, the free squads USF gets when teching up should be placed behind a side-tech wall as well. You pay less than Ostheer for your tech, yet you get more out of it. Meanwhile, Ostheer has to research AND build to tech up, actually requiring them to pull a Pioneer squad away from the front - and that as one of two factions that doesn't have any option to gain a forward retreat point to somewhat lessen the impact of this.

By that logic, the free squads USF gets when teching up should be placed behind a side-tech wall as well. You pay less than Ostheer for your tech, yet you get more out of it. Meanwhile, Ostheer has to research AND build to tech up, actually requiring them to pull a Pioneer squad away from the front - and that as one of two factions that doesn't have any option to gain a forward retreat point to somewhat lessen the impact of this.

I think that the LT could see it's bar behind an upgrade (simil to cpt) but you have to take into account that the free squads are there to compensate from not getting free upgrades through teching (faust/nade/lmgs/schreck).

OKW Flak truck should be locked down behind an upgrade. Losing it, shouldn't be as polarizing in order to get access to JPIV/Obers and Medic HQ could see it's change rollback.
IF replacing trucks was cheaper but with limited unit access or functionality, then i could see it requiring all trucks alive to call a KT working.

I think that the LT could see it's bar behind an upgrade (simil to cpt) but you have to take into account that the free squads are there to compensate from not getting free upgrades through teching (faust/nade/lmgs/schreck).

But Ostheer teching already costs more, requires you to pull an entire squad back and takes longer. So the "free" upgrades which also are squadbound (meaning they suffer from the general squishyness of Ostheer squads and the ridiculous punishments for losing models by having outraging reinforcement costs that no other faction comes close to on their mainline infantry) are already factored into that.

P.S.: On top of that, the Captain without the Bazookas also doubles as a very effective medium/close-range infantry squad to flush out Grens. His Thompson outdamages two Gren models at close range, and you can't even block him with MGs due to his abilities for example. The LT is a bit less effective in that regard, but the impact is still there.

But Ostheer teching already costs more, requires you to pull an entire squad back and takes longer. So the "free" upgrades which also are squadbound (meaning they suffer from the general squishyness of Ostheer squads and the ridiculous punishments for losing models by having outraging reinforcement costs that no other faction comes close to on their mainline infantry) are already factored into that.

Does it really cost more if we take into account all upgrades and tech? At the end of the day each faction functions differently, has it own strengths and weakness and have to be balance accordingly. I think we are going too far away of the point. To make it clear:

OP premise: should KT require all tech buildings up?
1-It could BUT other adjustments to teching should be done. (free medics, payed Flaked, some tech elements been more accessible, replacing trucks not as hard*)
*This is roughly what Smith says on other post that you might miss as thinking just "nerf OKW"

You: "USF should pay as well" and you mention some OH points.
2- As i said, i don't think that the "free" squad is as breaking as such. In regards to OH, i don't think that there's an issue on the EARLY to mid game, but i'm on favor of some kind of late upgrade for both eastern front armies (T4) to compensate for the powercreep since WFA + UKF. In case of OH, a 5th man upgrade for Gren/Pio locked down behind BP3 (simil cost to UKF).

I recall that prior to the change of KT being call-in (it was a T0 unit), the HQ trucks were designed along that line. For those that don't remember, you needed all three trucks up, and KT had to be built in T0, which meant no more churning out Volks squads.
I can't help but feel that since Relic made KT call-in instead, the meta regarding the HQ trucks was left unchanged.

I don't think they need to be though, HQ trucks aren't exactly bulwark artillery sponges, and losing them means medic/ mechanics/ area denial, but also means to produce units. Losing T4 and opting to just go KT means you need to carry the rest of the game with Pumas and/ or infantry: ignoring T4 means no medium armour. At worst that's a viable alternative with it's own set of disadvantages. That sounds like quite a gap for the opponent to build up AT as well as seize control of the map in the meantime.
And that's just fuel; you can (and I have been reliably) drain the OKW player of manpower, of which it needs more but will have less available. There isn't much point carrying the game with infantry if you end up with 300 fuel but 100 manpower.

Also, it's clear that Relic wanted the KT to be basically a non-doctrinal call-in, and a call-in by definition is something that costs lots of resources but doesn't require buildings. T-34/85 and Easy Eight for their part are safe in HQ territory and aren't heavy tanks.

If we're going to make KT rely entirely on HQ trucks not being destroyed then the only acceptable change is to considerably buff their durability. No one's going to risk trucks near the front if their only non-doc call-in relies entirely on them still standing. They're not exactly durable against even T0 infantry attack.

If we're going to make KT rely entirely on HQ trucks not being destroyed then the only acceptable change is to considerably buff their durability. No one's going to risk trucks near the front if their only non-doc call-in relies entirely on them still standing. They're not exactly durable against even T0 infantry attack.

+1, I agree that this is a huge risk. If I'm playing some one of greater or equal skill level, I build my trucks in base. I can't afford to build a schwer 3 times in a long game. Sometimes 3 rifle squads run up smoke and attack ground with bazookas to kill my schwer. Why can't it attack ground? Or that some of the British call-in arty brings it down to a sliver of life, making it almost push button kill T4. I think it's more fragile than most people think.

Does it really cost more if we take into account all upgrades and tech? .....

+1

By that logic, the free squads USF gets when teching up should be placed behind a side-tech wall as well. You pay less than Ostheer for your tech, yet you get more out of it. Meanwhile, Ostheer has to research AND build to tech up, actually requiring them to pull a Pioneer squad away from the front - and that as one of two factions that doesn't have any option to gain a forward retreat point to somewhat lessen the impact of this.

Sure thing. I'd be up for that.
That way I won't have useless, expensive-to-reinforce squads eating up my popcap, when what I really wanted to do was summon paratroopers.

I am assuming that the Lieutenant squad will be reworked a bit to be made worthwhile to field on its own?

Down with freebies!

I played USF before brits came out and on the odd occasion play as OST. I don't know about you but, I like a challenge hence no OKW play

Latch, I played against you. I know exactly why you consider OKW op.

Latch, I played against you. I know exactly why you consider OKW op.

He's biased enough that he's not using logic at all anymore.

But seriously, stating that something is easy/no challenge without even trying to play it... its just plain stupidity.

KT make OKW extremly strong in team games. You can easy backup with two invisible AT guns and smasch all in your way.
No problem, as it now. No need nerf or buff.

When i started to play this game i prioritized to kill US officers because i tought that it would make them needing to tech again like OKW.

How about just remove those officers and copy Brit or make them have some useful auras and when they are lost you need to tech that tier again?

About the OKW in general. The truck system is risky and fuel heavy. If they need to side tech why not free the side tech to All truck... If they want 3 Flakgun trucks or 3 retreat positions or repair places why not?

And for effing sake make the flak gun possible to aim... it just too easy to drive a tank there for it to shoot and pour infantry to kill it when its too dumb to switch targeting from unkillable unit to killable.

The truck system is risky and fuel heavy.

You can allways build truck in base. Fuel price is suitable.

If someone want risk, it does not always pan out.

If someone want risk, it does not always pan out.

This is why the "sidetech" should be choose able not as forced for each tier/truck.

And why only okw has to have that risk? I know, I know "Asymmetrical" gameplay.
One of those i hate the most is the trench/bunker/firing position mechanic

Losing forward retreat point comparing USF and OKW.

USF: ouch, well i just buy major it again with manpower in fact its so cheap that i usually run with it in the front lines to bombard enemy with its arty.
OKW: Not a chance to build again in that game.