Any reason for it?

Stationary

DPS T34vsPZ4----16.80---14.82---11.55---8.66----6.16
DPS M4a3vsPZ4--20.57---18.38---14.55---11.11---8.08
DPS CromvsPZ4--19.83---18.03---14.55---11.36---8.48

DPS PZ4vsT34----22.26---20.53---16.83---13.39---10.20
DPS M4a3vsPZ4--20.87---20.00---16.50---13.13---10.00
DPS CromvsPZ4--20.87---19.25---15.78---12.55---9.57

Moving Cromwell commander(no hammer).

DPS T34vsPZ4---9.24---7.41---5.77---4.33---3.08
DPS M4a3vsPZ4-16.97---13.79---10.91---8.33---6.06
DPS CromvsPZ4--18----14.88-----12------9.38-----7

DPS T34vsPZ4---12.24---10.27---8.42---6.70---5.10
DPS M4a3vsPZ4--12.00---10.06---8.25---6.56---5.00
DPS CromvsPZ4--11.48---9.63---7.89---6.28---4.78


What katitof has failed to factor in is the moving accuracy penalty...

Kati your numbers in a vacuum of 2 tanks sitting right in front of each other not moving is a poor argument. This never happens, pretty much ever so please stop pointing to it like it is the answer let alone an answer because it is clearly the answer for someone who doesn't actually play the game.

Indeed.

This what happened to me when I didn't used stop right before shooting.
You can miss on the move pretty much from any range > 0.

Because you have no clue how to successfully use PzIV against T-34/85 doesn't mean the unit is bad.

1) I never said the P4 was bad.

2) You said P4 and T-85 were equal, again

Also the fact that you have not played a single game as axis in god knows how long is hilarious (unless it was ofc a custom match?!!). Please keep your nonsense theory-crafting to yourself.

lol P4 and T-85 being equal......what a world of Ost T3 that would be!

except um.. you dont... lol

You don't what? I don't really know which statement you are refering to in that constructive post.

1) I never said the P4 was bad.

2) You said P4 and T-85 were equal, again

Also the fact that you have not played a single game as axis in god knows how long is hilarious (unless it was ofc a custom match?!!). Please keep your nonsense theory-crafting to yourself.

lol P4 and T-85 being equal......what a world of Ost T3 that would be!

The t34/85 > P4. I don't know how this is an arguement.

Indeed.

This what happened to me when I didn't used stop right before shooting.
You can miss on the move pretty much from any range > 0.

This is why I still steer clear of T-34/76, crap main gun means unless your MG can suppress inf, this tank still sux hard, hell I would pay extra 10-15 fuel just to swap T-34 main gun with either T-70 gun or SU-76 gun. Crap acc + Crap pen = no deal for me.

The t34/85 > P4. I don't know how this is an arguement.

When you think of them fighting each other in 1v1 situation, yes. When you think of abilities like smoke or blitz, AI firepower, top mg that shoots down planes exceptionally well and the fact that p4 is non-doc AND cheaper to tech at the same time, you may come to a conclusion that T-34/85 is far behind. There is a reason why you see p4 in most ostheer matches and you have never seen T-34/85s used seriously since nerfs long time ago.

[...]
2) You said P4 and T-85 were equal, again
[...]

What I said was "about equal", not "equal". Huge difference isn't?
1v1 in a vacuum Vet 0 PzIV will loose to T-34/85 but only just. With vet however situation changes dramatically.
When PzIV reaches Vet 2, T-34/85 will die every time. Having this in mind you can easily say that PzIV is a better investment.

Kati your numbers in a vacuum of 2 tanks sitting right in front of each other not moving is a poor argument. This never happens, pretty much ever so please stop pointing to it like it is the answer let alone an answer because it is clearly the answer for someone who doesn't actually play the game.

ouch rekt

Soviet T34-76 Decent to good AI capabilties, struggles vs most medium armor it faces 80 fuel

UKF Cromwell Perfect AI capabilities, effective vs all Axis medium armor it faces 110 fuel

Hahaha, so cromwell is the better AI tank? Is this opinion based on all the crushing it can achieve? Because the T-34/76 is the better AI tank.

What I said was "about equal", not "equal". Huge difference isn't?
1v1 in a vacuum Vet 0 PzIV will loose to T-34/85 but only just. With vet however situation changes dramatically.
When PzIV reaches Vet 2, T-34/85 will die every time. Having this in mind you can easily say that PzIV is a better investment.

That isn't true at all, vet 2 p4 wins heads up against the vet 0 t34/85 about half the time and it has nothing to do with armour or penetration, it's because of the t34/85 tighter scatter.

Were do you come up with this stuff?

Dayumn, the denial and detachment from reality are real.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/54272/any-reason-for-it/post/549073

And did you just went full retard by saying that medium tank losing to tank destroyers and heavy tanks is a bad thing?

Nope not delusional at all,for their cheaper price and in moving combat allied mediums have a reasonably good chance of beating a pz 4..especially if they get 1st shot in.Sherman with HE is much more utility in wiping squads,and cromwell player will circle you all day as well as crush your infantry.

No what i said is even when pz 4 is heavily vetted up its a low level lategame threat so the tank has no scalability,as with its poor penetration 3 pz 4s cant kill an is2...your pen wont improve with vet that alllied fanboys keep harping on about.Your range wont increase so will be kited easily and armour wont be enough to bounce TDs.So its only good vs stock mediums which few allied players use beyond maybe one starting unit.
They will usually go for call in mediums which will rape your pz 4 at unbelievable prices nonetheless,and TDs which will do the same.Even forgetting heavies.
And you would still struggle vs microed cromwell,which will get first shot in and circle you.Forget about fighting comet or churchill.
You will lose to t-34/85s.you will lose to su-85s and the only reasonable time u face t-34/76s that u keep posting ur data about ..facing soviet industry you will be outspammed and lose there too.
You will lose to bazooka blobs,lose to e8,lose to jackson as well.Can only hope for some success against vanilla sherman which anyway if built and usually supported by bazooka blob will do much better than you.You are quite funny thinking this game is only numbers.

Nope not delusional at all,for their cheaper price and in moving combat allied mediums have a reasonably good chance of beating a pz 4..especially if they get 1st shot in.Sherman with HE is much more utility in wiping squads,and cromwell player will circle you all day as well as crush your infantry.

No what i said is even when pz 4 is heavily vetted up its a low level lategame threat so the tank has no scalability,as with its poor penetration 3 pz 4s cant kill an is2...your pen wont improve with vet that alllied fanboys keep harping on about.Your range wont increase so will be kited easily and armour wont be enough to bounce TDs.So its only good vs stock mediums which few allied players use beyond maybe one starting unit.
They will usually go for call in mediums which will rape your pz 4 at unbelievable prices nonetheless,and TDs which will do the same.Even forgetting heavies.
And you would still struggle vs microed cromwell,which will get first shot in and circle you.Forget about fighting comet or churchill.
You will lose to t-34/85s.you will lose to su-85s and the only reasonable time u face t-34/76s that u keep posting ur data about ..facing soviet industry you will be outspammed and lose there too.
You will lose to bazooka blobs,lose to e8,lose to jackson as well.Can only hope for some success against vanilla sherman which anyway if built and usually supported by bazooka blob will do much better than you.You are quite funny thinking this game is only numbers.

Exactly, what can't 1v1 a p4?

That isn't true at all, vet 2 p4 wins heads up against the vet 0 t34/85 about half the time and it has nothing to do with armour or penetration, it's because of the t34/85 tighter scatter.

Were do you come up with this stuff?

Experience playing the game.

Experience playing the game.

As strictly allies?

T34/85 vs oh P4 on anti inf (30 samples total):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4koTutTHuHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7h0txMUPw

Let's compare the t34/76 to the p4

Pen: 100 to 110
Armour: 150 to 180
Scatter: 6.9 to 6.4
Reload time: 6.23 to 5.63
Speed: 6.5 to 6.2

Where is the cost difference justified?

As strictly allies?

T34/85 vs oh P4 on anti inf (30 samples total):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4koTutTHuHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr7h0txMUPw

Let's compare the t34/76 to the p4

Pen: 100 to 110
Armour: 150 to 180
Scatter: 6.9 to 6.4
Reload time: 6.23 to 5.63
Speed: 6.5 to 6.2

Where is the cost difference justified?

PIV also reloads faster by at least half a second and I think I recall its minimum penetration is greater than the 76's by at least 20 (think IV's 100, 76's 80), so the 76 largely has no chance of winning without a surprise flank.

PIV also reloads faster by at least half a second and I think I recall its minimum penetration is greater than the 76's by at least 20 (think IV's 100, 76's 80), so the 76 largely has no chance of winning without a surprise flank.

I was testing this a bit, a T34/76 will win about 30% of the time heads up.

OH P4 has a 73% chance to penetrate the T34/76 and the T34/76 has a 55% chance to penetrate the P4. The T34/76 is 86% the cost in MP and 64% the cost in fuel.

I'm pretty sure the t34 has better ai but I have not tested it much yet.

The Bias is strong in OP.

I feel like Op has never used the T-34/76.

(wall of text)

So basically you are complaining that the P4 can't defeat heavy tanks, more expensive doctrinal mediums or dedicated AT units. The p4's strength is versatility. However versatility only means a unit is useful in a range of situations, not that it can defeat every other unit.

I will repeat what I said before. The P4 is nearly perfect balance due to its mix of stats, vet bonuses and abilities (abilities which are far better than those on any allied mediums except Sherman crew repair). The problem is difficulty in accessing lategame counters to blobs and heavy tanks, which forces the P4 to be pressed into a role that specialist units are supposed to fill.