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OKW Infantry

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4 Jul 2016, 23:20 PM
#121
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



With respect to USF, however, it is easy to see that USF infantry should be more cost-effective than OKW infantry, because OKW late-game vehicles are more cost-effective and way less micro-intensive than the USF paper-fleet.


I agree with your assessment of the usf riflemen. but if riflemen are supposed to be the strongest line infantry then the vg's should be the second strongest. The reason for that are simple. every other aspects of the okw early game is inferior to the usf: lv's support weapons teching and early tanks are all inferior.

Now the whole OKW faction is simply falling to pieces without its shreks as these problems have been their for a long time but where masked by the effects the shrek had on the game. the following needs to happen in my opinion.

buff the mp44 upgrade to mirror the pg stg.
the okw flacktruck needs some buffs
and the price reversal of the tanks.
4 Jul 2016, 23:49 PM
#122
avatar of Virtual Boar

Posts: 196

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jul 2016, 23:20 PMZyllen


I agree with your assement of hte usf riflemen. but if riflemen is supposed to be the strongest line infantry then the vg's should be the second strongest. The reason for that are simple. every other aspects of the okw early game is inferior to the usf: lv's support weapons teching and early tanks are all inferior.

Now the whole OKW faction is simply falling to pieces without its shreks as these problems have been their for a long time but where masked by the effects the shrek had on the game. the following needs to happen in my opinion.

buff the mp44 upgrade to mirror the pg stg.
the okw flacktruck needs some buffs
and the price reversal of the tanks.


Except OKW is not falling to pieces

http://imgur.com/Fd7B6zw

Put that one on your pipe and smoke it for a while.

Your suggestions are ridiculous. Mp44 is already an infantry shredder, Flak truck makes the bofors blush and OKW has fantastic tanks, a P-4 off the shelf with armour skirt upgrade, the best AT tank in game, the jgpanzer 4, and access to a super heavy King Tiger with no need for doctrine and all of this at very fair pricing.

5 Jul 2016, 01:34 AM
#123
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



If marketing jargon is enough evidance for you, then I have anything to add.

OKW elite infantry - Fals, Fusiliers etc. and of course Obers


You do know thats exactly how they are described in game too?

Im still waiting your source saying Volks are supposed to be fragile.
5 Jul 2016, 01:41 AM
#124
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



Except OKW is not falling to pieces

http://imgur.com/Fd7B6zw



1v1 and 2v2 OKWs win rate has dropped steeply. 4v4 they are lowest too. Also i dont see how OWKs games played has any effect on them falling to pieces or not

http://imgur.com/cNQXG2m



Your suggestions are ridiculous. Mp44 is already an infantry shredder, Flak truck makes the bofors blush



What? The 2 STGs dont add that much DPS, compared to other single weapon upgrades. Flack truck is better than bofors? The Bofors is better in every measurable way. Cheaper, more damage, more suppression, more health, brace, Counters Mortars and AT guns. At this point i think you be trolling.
5 Jul 2016, 05:16 AM
#126
avatar of MoLarr

Posts: 17 | Subs: 1

Some good discussion about the OKW here, it has definitely given me alot to think about.

In particular 1 point

Does anyone care that T1 is nonexistent? Are there any top 100 OKW that consitantly open with T1?
5 Jul 2016, 09:16 AM
#127
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



You do know thats exactly how they are described in game too?

Im still waiting your source saying Volks are supposed to be fragile.


This description refers also to fresh recruits and recovered wounded soldiers. Sure, that's a clear indicator Volks should be elite infantry. Volksgrenadiers basically means Conscripts. Historically and in game.

Watch any official stream or even study the patch notes on the official website. Pay attention to what kind of changes were introduced.
5 Jul 2016, 10:54 AM
#128
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



This description refers also to fresh recruits and recovered wounded soldiers. Sure, that's a clear indicator Volks should be elite infantry.


No it says that they are effective infantry. Which clashes with your reality where you believe they should be ineffective.

BTW im still waiting for you to find any sort of proof that they are meant to be ineffective.
5 Jul 2016, 11:03 AM
#129
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



No it says that they are effective infantry. Which clashes with your reality where you believe they should be ineffective.

BTW im still waiting for you to find any sort of proof that they are meant to be ineffective.

Actually, description says they are effective against infantry at long range.

Description also says conscripts are effective behind the cover, which is a load of bull unless opponent stays at mid range without/in red, just to give you a pointer on accuracy of unit description vs reality.

Volks are more effective then cons and comparably effective to LMG grens, that means they will not be effective against upgraded rifles or tommies.
5 Jul 2016, 13:11 PM
#130
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



No it says that they are effective infantry. Which clashes with your reality where you believe they should be ineffective.

BTW im still waiting for you to find any sort of proof that they are meant to be ineffective.



In regards to Volks durability:


Volksgrenadiers
The received accuracy bonus the Volksgrenadiers gained at Veterancy level 5 made them extremely durable. Durability was not one of the intended roles of the squad so adjustments were made.
Removed 0.71 received accuracy at veterancy level 5
Added 0.7 cooldown and reload at veterancy level 5


Link



Volksgrenadiers
Performs moderately well at long range combat
Extremely vulnerable at short range, moderately vulnerable at mid-range
Versus Riflemen
Disadvantaged at long ranges
Extremely disadvantaged at short-mid ranges
Versus Conscripts
Advantaged at long ranges
Disadvantaged at mid ranges
Disadvantaged at short ranges
Changes
Mid accuracy from 0.6 to 0.62
Far accuracy from 0.55 to 0.59
Moving cooldown from 1 to 1.5


Link


These are just few I found going through patch notes alone
5 Jul 2016, 13:12 PM
#131
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8




In regards to Volks durability:



Link




Link


There are just first I found going through patch notes alone


:hansGG::hansREKT: :sibHyena:
5 Jul 2016, 13:27 PM
#132
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

I never seen such a massive hissy for over the description of units.


also oz thats some pretty fucking outdated info you got their. the VG;s didnt just get buffed or nerfed their entire role got changed. so any info previously before the swap from shreks to mp44 is no longer relevant.
5 Jul 2016, 13:51 PM
#133
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2016, 13:27 PMZyllen
I never seen such a massive hissy for over the description of units.


also oz thats some pretty fucking outdated info you got their. the VG;s didnt just get buffed or nerfed their entire role got changed. so any info previously before the swap from shreks to mp44 is no longer relevant.



I never made this fuss in the first place and these are few of the last changes made to Volks. Also my point was to show the design philosophy rather than adjustments it selves. That is literately Relic saying what was their aim yet you still are going to argue that.
5 Jul 2016, 16:23 PM
#134
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770




I never made this fuss in the first place and these are few of the last changes made to Volks. Also my point was to show the design philosophy rather than adjustments it selves. That is literately Relic saying what was their aim yet you still are going to argue that.


Your simply not allowed to bring this info into the argument because it applies to shrek volks not to mp44 volks.
5 Jul 2016, 16:42 PM
#136
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2016, 16:23 PMZyllen


Your simply not allowed to bring this info into the argument because it applies to shrek volks not to mp44 volks.

While not definitively so, the lack of price changes would certainly imply Volks are meant more to be meatshields, like the similarly-priced Conscripts and Grenadiers. Otherwise they'd probably have gotten price-increases from the recent changes.

Doesn't mean its fine, but that's the sense I'd get.
5 Jul 2016, 16:49 PM
#137
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770




I think you just got owned and you butt hurts so much you cant admit it for the world.


Also your counterargument is ridiculous.



No im cracking down on intellectually dishonest allied fanboys like yourself. your arguments are shit period.

I already asked you why the owk should have the weakest mainline infantry support weapons and lv's. you couldn't answer and you still cannot because you know its true. This whole description issue is something i put an end to because its nothing more then a huge strawmen that you created.
5 Jul 2016, 16:51 PM
#138
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2016, 16:42 PMVuther

While not definitively so, the lack of price changes would certainly imply Volks are meant more to be meatshields, like the similarly-priced Conscripts and Grenadiers. Otherwise they'd probably have gotten price-increases from the recent changes.

Doesn't mean its fine, but that's the sense I'd get.


you do realise that relic is not actually a genius when it comes to balance. jezus i can still remember the nids of dow 2 1.3 patch.

i think its more a complete oversight or a testing ground : remove the shreks and lets see what happens then fill up any deficiency in the okw army.

I hope for the letter but i fear its the former.
5 Jul 2016, 17:27 PM
#139
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2016, 16:49 PMZyllen



No im cracking down on intellectually dishonest allied fanboys like yourself. your arguments are shit period.

I already asked you why the owk should have the weakest mainline infantry support weapons and lv's. you couldn't answer and you still cannot because you know its true. This whole description issue is something i put an end to because its nothing more then a huge strawmen that you created.



I provided you with proofs and supported my valid claims, you got nothing expect for childish arrogance. You want to take you seriously? Support your claims with some evidence.
5 Jul 2016, 17:47 PM
#140
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

if we are to go by relic's description of units then lol...
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