Rifle smoke and mortar, pick one.

Wehrmacht has Flamethrowers, Sniper and Mortar, Soviets have Molotovs, Sniper, Flamethrowers, Satchels and Mortar, OKW has Incendiary Nades and ISG (Doesnt have to deal with Early MGs that much fortunately), UKF has UC and Sniper all the while USF only had Grenades in the early game to rush out and clear garrisons or smoke MGs so why doesnt USF deserve 1 alternative in the early game?

Firstly snipers do not clear units out of buildings well, unlike in VCoH.

Secondly variety is not the issue in coutnering MGs. MG counters are available on American mainline infantry that scales towards the endgame.

In my opinion, smoke on all mainline units is barely acceptable, let alone an extra mortar. The extra mortar is basically saying - Okay USF can have its cake and eat it too.

Furthermore, if a mortar is really needed, the USF has a mortar halftrack anyway. I don't quite understand why a mortar is needed for USF in T0 when USF has a lot of options up its sleeve for MG counters and indirect fire.

In my opinion, smoke on all mainline units is barely acceptable, let alone an extra mortar. The extra mortar is basically saying - Okay USF can have its cake and eat it too.

Rifle nade and ost mortar is exactly the same case you know... you want to remove ost mortar or rifle nade now?

Furthermore, if a mortar is really needed, the USF has a mortar halftrack anyway. I don't quite understand why a mortar is needed for USF in T0 when USF has a lot of options up its sleeve for MG counters and indirect fire.

Do you even understand why the mortar was added in the first place and why its specifically T0 and not tech locked?
Do you understand why its T0 and not doctrinal locked?

Rifle nade and ost mortar is exactly the same case you know... you want to remove ost mortar or rifle nade now?

Do you even understand why the mortar was added in the first place and why its specifically T0 and not tech locked?
Do you understand why its T0 and not doctrinal locked?

Basically, no I don't.

Prior to the patch, smoke was perfectly fine in negating MGs. It still is in this patch. Now, basically in all but the most open of maps, a mortar is a no-brainer, you do not have to make much in the way of tactical or strategical sacrifices to get a mortar.

Smoke is really a luxury that VCoH players or Soviet players didn't have when trying to deal with Wehr MG42s, I simply don't get why Americans are all that special, especially since their infantry is now beefed up so much.

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That said, if I had a choice in getting rid of either smoke or mortars, it would be smoke. If I had my way, I'd make mortar T1. No other faction in the game has indirect T0.

Wehrmacht has Flamethrowers, Sniper and Mortar, Soviets have Molotovs, Sniper, Flamethrowers, Satchels and Mortar, OKW has Incendiary Nades and ISG (Doesnt have to deal with Early MGs that much fortunately), UKF has UC and Sniper all the while USF only had Grenades in the early game to rush out and clear garrisons or smoke MGs so why doesnt USF deserve 1 alternative in the early game?

I said a low powered mortar is fine, but it shouldn't be able to smoke as well just regular barrage.

With a T0 turbo pack howie we would need 6 man grens, HMG42 and PGrens.


Smoke (with cheaper teching) should suffice.

Firstly snipers do not clear units out of buildings well, unlike in VCoH.

Secondly variety is not the issue in coutnering MGs. MG counters are available on American mainline infantry that scales towards the endgame.

In my opinion, smoke on all mainline units is barely acceptable, let alone an extra mortar. The extra mortar is basically saying - Okay USF can have its cake and eat it too.

Furthermore, if a mortar is really needed, the USF has a mortar halftrack anyway. I don't quite understand why a mortar is needed for USF in T0 when USF has a lot of options up its sleeve for MG counters and indirect fire.

Smoke Grenades got nerfed (reduced 33% range when suppressed) and bleed you Muni

I couldve mentioned flamethrowers for USF but they force you to choose a commander just like the Mortar Halftrack

I said a low powered mortar is fine, but it shouldn't be able to smoke as well just regular barrage.

Thats what USF needed something to launch smoke so you dont need to tech Grenades all the time and to harass Garrisons and MG positions as a fan of the Pack Howitzer the Mortar made it redundent in my opinion as you by the Pack Howitzer for its killing power but whats the point the Mortar is in T0 cheaper and better than it

USF needs the Mortar but definitely not for killing

Rilfe smoke is better 100%, USF cant do without in high rank games. You can force a retreat with it (because enemy gets a "grenade" warning, while its just smoke, relic did not fix this yet lol) and it stuns vehicles. And ofc the most important thing to do as USF: create choas.

It's funny to see the axis players crying about having to micro some troops at the beginning of the game. They say mortars are for no brains but every game the axis has mortars, have MG suppressing troops, stop that doesn't need brains, all without lifting a finger. So you have to worry about using the grenades of some volksgranadiers...

I would pick shiitin noobs like you not to stay in game

Keep both with a tone down us mortar.

OP literally thinks the faction with the fewest options should even have fewer.

This thread makes me cry, the Mortar actually has a down side of fewer riflemen on the field, which, unsuprisingly is really bad for USF early game.

"just smoke and flank bro"

Smoke Grenades got nerfed (reduced 33% range when suppressed) and bleed you Muni

I couldve mentioned flamethrowers for USF but they force you to choose a commander just like the Mortar Halftrack



Thats what USF needed something to launch smoke so you dont need to tech Grenades all the time and to harass Garrisons and MG positions as a fan of the Pack Howitzer the Mortar made it redundent in my opinion as you by the Pack Howitzer for its killing power but whats the point the Mortar is in T0 cheaper and better than it

USF needs the Mortar but definitely not for killing

Same for Ostheer. I could deal with your stuart with tellers, faust + pak, but if you light tanks are wrecking me or constantly being able to get behind shotblockers and escaping, I'm forced to get a puma from mobile defense. If the Ost player is spamming mgs and your flanking and nade timing is not up to par, you'll need to get mortar halftracks. That is skill. Forcing one's hands.

Same for Ostheer. I could deal with your stuart with tellers, faust + pak, but if you light tanks are wrecking me or constantly being able to get behind shotblockers and escaping, I'm forced to get a puma from mobile defense. If the Ost player is spamming mgs and your flanking and nade timing is not up to par, you'll need to get mortar halftracks. That is skill. Forcing one's hands.

Now you can skillfully force a USF players hand by making him purchase a Mortar for 260 MP

Now you can skillfully force a USF players hand by making him purchase a Mortar for 260 MP

Thanks to a bunch of USF fanboy crybabies that should be l2p instead and the fact that Relic only hears one side of the argument: the allied side. But I guess as an Ost player I'm used to taking shit so I guess I can deal with a mortar, not an op one. Anyways, right now I made it first priority to steal the USF mortar if he builds one. Give that USF crybaby a taste of his own medicine. USF players rarely see u coming for the mortar. And when the do, the crew most likely ate a rifle nade and the last crew member is running back to Uncle Sam.

OH is supposed to use combined arms... but wait. USF has every tool now to cancel that out... how stupid. This game is ment for OH to be on the back foot and once again always respond to the enemy actions

The USF mortar needs to be toned down. It should barely kill anything, but be a smoke dispenser for the USF when there isn't enough munitions for smoke grenades.

While I can sympathize with the Ostheer players about their demand for removing the mortar. Having the mortar at T0 can remove the boring early game the USF has done since the beginning of their faction's release. Like, it's boring to constantly throw 280 manpower for another squad because there isn't enough fuel to get a Lieutenant or a Captain on the field.

In other words, it breaks the monotonous beginning the USF does for every game. I mean, a USF player could try to mix things up with Rear Echelons, but we all know their worth in reality. It would lead to interesting plays, but Riflemen are the staple unit the USF knows it can last in the long run.

Now there is also a good little decision making for having the mortar around. If the USF chooses a mortar, he would lose a chance of another squad to cap the map or lose field presence on the battlefield. Meaning, there would be less Riflemen on the field because a USF took the chance to buy a mortar than another Riflemen. This is where a risk comes in that an Ostheer or an OKW player can take/destroy said mortar.

So having the mortar for the USF can do more good since it will lessen certain moments where an entire MG42 team gets surrounded because three Riflemen come from three different directions. We just need to hope that Relic can actually tone down the mortar without overnerfing its usefulness.

OH is supposed to use combined arms... but wait. USF has every tool now to cancel that out... how stupid. This game is ment for OH to be on the back foot and once again always respond to the enemy actions

OH is supposed to use combined arms... but wait. USF has every tool now to cancel that out... how stupid. This game is ment for OH to be on the back foot and once again always respond to the enemy actions

Wait.. so armies are actually build to be able to actually counter each other and actually fight instead of being steamrolled? OMFG! What a revelation!

I wouldn't mind everything havING smoke,but with the obvious motor nerf that will happen when sega decides to fire and replace the remaining devs, I would like grens to recieve a survival buff.