USF didn't need a mortar.

Addition: What if they moved HMG to t0 and mortar to Lieutenant? You think something like that would work?

A T0 hmg for usf would be batshit Op and far worse than the morter.

USF has the strongest stock infantry which is why they don't need a mortar or MG at T0.

A T0 hmg for usf would be batshit Op and far worse than the morter.

The USF VS OKW matchups would be messed up. If any weapons team is going to be introduced to t0, riflemen or light vechiles would need to be adjusted.

Addition: What if they moved HMG to t0 and mortar to Lieutenant? You think something like that would work?

You'd have to do massive changes to the .50cal considering it has a very good set-up time, does very good DPS, can now perforate any light vehicle (not light tanks), wide arc and has also good suppression. Only thing that's really bad about it is the deathloop if you're just judging it by itself.

As I said on the mortar itself awhile back, it should have been unique. High AOE drop-off, negligible OHK radius with less damage versus structures and worse range. In exchange it has rate of fire and accuracy while also providing smoke with a good set-up/tear down. Now you have a weapon that's different from the pack howitzer which is more mobile to keep up with Riflemen and serves to dislodge units early on, but it does not really kill while lack of range means its very vulnerable to counter-battery.

And I would agree with that for sure, The mortar, if it was needed for anything was build order luxury and diversification; replacing smoke with mortar, replacing fast flamer ass engy with mortar, replacing boring 4x rifle with mortar, etc. Not to neccessarily give usf something they never had or 'needed'(mg counter) because they obviously have vaulting, true sight, smoke, op light vehicles, etc.

Usf can counter mgs effectively without morter, although on some 1v1 maps it can be a real pain where you have to play significantly better ( micro wise ) than your opponent.

However, you will need smoke nades or flamers if Ost is camping buildings, meaning tech or doc choice to counter the 1st unit ost can build from t0 . Vehicles will counter mgs in the open, just like good flanking but can only be considered a soft counter to mgs in building, and in reality a light vehicle is better used elsewhere as an mg can simply stall in the house until support arrives taking relatively little damage or pop incendiary rounds once vet 1 and then counter its own counter.

Edit : The light vehicles I am referring to are M20 and Stuart. The M15A1 AA Half-track and M5 Halftrack are quite effective vs mgs.

The initial counter to mgs in buildings in coh1 was flamers. As the game progressed more options such as morter, sniper, m8 etc became availabe as usf teched. In coh2, if you want flamers you have to pick a doctrine which restricts usf options for the rest of the match and if your unlucky, as is often the case with assult engies your flamer will explode.

The issue is more about design failures.

Its not only the fuel to tech to nades but you don't typically have much muni either. A good player can make your early smoke/nade a very poor investment. Maps with critical buildings only complicate things because there's no guarantee for a nade to clear or even a damage unit.
Therefore, I think USF Nades are more for mid to late game, imo. This is due to the player having a small number of units on the field in the early game. A few units are much easier to micro and dodge. The mortar fills a gap for the USF core army.

As far as the tier goes, I think you are right. Also the pack howi, motor carriage and mortar feels redundant.

+1

Early nades will often bite you in the arse, especially if ost player not only survives with no unit wipes but teches quickly to t2.

M20 is awesome vs setup teams. I'd like to see the mortar bugs fixed, stay in tier 0 but be gated behind teching like the OKW MG34.

The entire point of adding the mortar was to diversify US opening, locking it behind tech is pointless. They already have the pack howitzer.

I'm not trying to be a CoH1 elitist, I'm just saying, all these people whining that USF cannot compete with OST MG's without a mortar must simply just not be good players.

PS: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197985783392

maps like semois summer and road to karkov are easy to base pin USF. nades are munition dependent so you wouldnt have much if you are being pushed back by MG wall. Also nades would delay the pac howi even further so why waste 25 fuel when on nades. Also if we want to talk about good players, most will simply move back a little bit once they see the smoke

Unlock flamthrower upgrade for RE with T1/T2 would have been another solution than adding mortar.

90% of the game I lost vs USF is because of Opmortar. It is very sad that Relic didn't prioritize higher this bug/balance issue for resolution.

The entire point of adding the mortar was to diversify US opening, locking it behind tech is pointless. They already have the pack howitzer.

Why not then just move Pak Howie to T0?

Unlock flamthrower upgrade for RE with T1/T2 would have been another solution than adding mortar.

90% of the game I lost vs USF is because of Opmortar. It is very sad that Relic didn't prioritize higher this bug/balance issue for resolution.

I agree this would also fix some of the zook blobbing, as they would only have one slot left. But I think that would make them a bit strong with suppression then flames. A lot stronger than most other flamer options anyway.

Unlock flamthrower upgrade for RE with T1/T2 would have been another solution than adding mortar.

90% of the game I lost vs USF is because of Opmortar. It is very sad that Relic didn't prioritize higher this bug/balance issue for resolution.

Hey man

I think I've beaten you today on arnhem checkpoint.

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  VS

  [DGM]Estal'xile

  «✪ Danyek ✪»

  ForBlanco2

  by: Danyek map: Arnhem Checkpoint

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This I think.

You cry about mortar, but that wasn't completely the case imho.
You got your 222 around the 8.30ish minute mark the same as my stuart rolled out.
And you were saving up your fuel for Tiger, yet when you could've called it in you just built T3 (I've watched the replay).
The other problem for you is that you gave too much focus on 1 side of the map unlike me, who always tried to harass your points.
Anyway it wasn't a bad game, so thanks

Hey man

I think I've beaten you today on arnhem checkpoint.

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  0

  VS

  [DGM]Estal'xile

  «✪ Danyek ✪»

  ForBlanco2

  by: Danyek map: Arnhem Checkpoint

  1

  -

This I think.

You cry about mortar, but that wasn't completely the case imho.
You got your 222 around the 8.30ish minute mark the same as my stuart rolled out.
And you were saving up your fuel for Tiger, yet when you could've called it in you just built T3 (I've watched the replay).
The other problem for you is that you gave too much focus on 1 side of the map unlike me, who always tried to harass your points.
Anyway it wasn't a bad game, so thanks

Lol

Be honest most of this thread is a giant L2P fest.

The moarter doea need be tone down a bit, just a bit.

And how many squads your mortar wiped or put half-life with 1 shot? how many time I had to change the mg location just to not get wiped by your mortar in 2 shots?

How I react is another matter, because with RamboMortar all early Ostheer gameplay is fucked. So I try others approaches.

Its a bit mathematic,
USF mortar > Ostheer Mortar
USF mortar > Ostheer HMG
RM > Gren
RM + USF Mortar >> anything Ostheer can field early game.

The only unit that leave a chance to Ostheer is the sniper. And guess what it is also randomly countered by the mortar.

So yes, Relic is, a new time, screwing their game with their incapacity to deliver a patch without stupid enormeous bugs.

The only unit that leave a chance to Ostheer is the sniper. And guess what it is also randomly countered by the mortar.

Not anymore, he has 82 health.

Not anymore, he has 82 health.

Just enought to hit the "T" before the second smart missile aimed from space satelite hits it.

Homing devices just seem to follow it from the instant it popped 1ms out of the cloaking phase until out of range or dead. No USF player input need here.

And the reaction on usf player is the same as those brits using prepatch counterbattery. Not a single clue on that indirect fire won the battle by killing all those units in the fog of war.

Like Esxile said ost don't have anything on USF anymore on 1vs1. Osttroops just fall from the mortar in cover or rifles in the open, AsGren could luckily push USF for couple of minutes (with enormous luck).

Just playing with them "goodguys" until we get rid off the smart munitions mortar (last when i played ratio seemed to be 90%-10% so i think that i am not the only one)

And how many squads your mortar wiped or put half-life with 1 shot? how many time I had to change the mg location just to not get wiped by your mortar in 2 shots?

Answer for first question:
Wipes: 0
Half health shots: 2
Your MGs got rekt because of major arty and double grenade.
Anyway I remember when your mortar got 3 model and leaving the remaining 2 members very low health.

Answer for second question:
You DO know that somebody with a brain starts shelling the exact same location? Even there's a tip ingame to move your MGs. I mustn't be the only one who actively repositions his MG and ATGs.

Answer for first question:
Wipes: 0
Half health shots: 2
Your MGs got rekt because of major arty and double grenade.
Anyway I remember when your mortar got 3 model and leaving the remaining 2 members very low health.

Answer for second question:
You DO know that somebody with a brain starts shelling the exact same location? Even there's a tip ingame to move your MGs. I mustn't be the only one who actively repositions his MG and ATGs.

Can't count how many time I moved a HMG asap after seen first shell landing but being rekt because of super accurate Rambomortar...

Can't count how many time I moved a HMG asap after seen first shell landing but being rekt because of super accurate Rambomortar...

You say it like your mortar didn't even fire a single shell. As I said I remember when it took 2-3 models and put them to almost 1 HP.