panthers reload speed

Are we talking of OKW panther or OST panther ? Cause Okw panther is actually pretty good, way better than ost one

Ost T4 is completely redundant...when did u last see it in a proper game .Panthers are only useable in 4 vs 4 slugfest.Otherwise completely useless unit.Panzer 4 and stug will give u much better performqance.Going for panther in 1 vs 1 and in many 2 vs 2= autolose game.

Even its armour is now again under pressure due to allied pen buffs.

Increase dmg to 240.Or decrease reload to tiger level.Otherwise its a novelty tank.A single snare and AT gun can beat it off.And it has no impact for its price vs allied armour.

Panther is not something allied players feel they should be worried about,or stop an axis player from getting.Wehrmachts faction design was based on ability to bring lategame power if it could survive ,but now all it does is bring one toothless cat to the table.

To pro-Panther-buff people:
- The key to Panther viability (superiority even) lies with its vet (in particular Vet2 and Vet3)
- If you believe that the Panther merits any buff in its current iteration, you should consider pillaging its vet bonuses (Jackson-style)
- Straight Panther buffs is a no-go (a Vet3 Panther will curbstomb anything; even the more expensive units the allies can throw at it, 1v1)
- The fact that some late-game Panther counters got buffed doesn't mean that the Panther needs to be buffed immediately. These counters needed to be buffed because the Panther (and Panther-spam) was getting too strong as matches dragged on.
- Panther-spam will still remain a very viable tactic, despite the nerfbuffs.

To nay-Panther-buff people:
- The veterancy bonuses I mentioned take time to kick in.
- It takes time to start rolling out Panthers
- It also takes time to accumulate veterancy on the Panther, since it has weak AI (1v1 is infantry-spam mode)
- By the time the Panther attains its vet, the match is usually over. Thus, Panther vet (and the unit itself) has no bearing in 1v1.

The Pershing is anti everything. The Panther is anti tank.

The Panther also has anti-infantry. It might not be as strong as generalist tanks, but it's there. It is also the only crush-capable Axis tank.

Because you also can get unlimited Comets, T-34/85s and E8s, which share similar health with the Panther. I´d consider them an own class. Improved mediums. The Panther however costs way more while offering less utility. The Comet is in the same cost bracket, yet kills infantry easily and only loses by a small margin versus the Panther. The sheer dps of all "improved mediums" is lowest on the Panther due to the rate of fire.

T-34s and E8's have paper armour. They also don't get the insane Panther Vet2/Vet3 bonuses. For units that require flanking to succeed, they also have less speed than the Panther.

Regarding Comet vs Panther. As I have already shown to you, the Panther only wins by a small margin if the both the following conditions hold:
- Panther is at Vet0 AND
- you fight the Comet at max-range.

At Vet2 and above, the Comet has absolutely zero chance (maybe 10%, only at max range).

First you create thread that panther is OP, now you say it's UP. Lol.

Then panther -% reload needs to be moved to vet 0.

Then panther -% reload needs to be moved to vet 0.

If you also move the HP bonus from Vet2 to Vet3, and adjust the veterancy requirements a bit (-30% reload = 40% veterancy gain), you have the basis of a good deal that should keep everyone happy:
- The 1v1 crowd
- The 4v4 crowd
- The people that have to counter Panthers-crowd

To pro-Panther-buff people:
- The key to Panther viability (superiority even) lies with its vet (in particular Vet2 and Vet3)
- If you believe that the Panther merits any buff in its current iteration, you should consider pillaging its vet bonuses (Jackson-style)
- Straight Panther buffs is a no-go (a Vet3 Panther will curbstomb anything; even the more expensive units the allies can throw at it, 1v1)
- The fact that some late-game Panther counters got buffed doesn't mean that the Panther needs to be buffed immediately. These counters needed to be buffed because the Panther (and Panther-spam) was getting too strong as matches dragged on.
- Panther-spam will still remain a very viable tactic, despite the nerfbuffs.

To nay-Panther-buff people:
- The veterancy bonuses I mentioned take time to kick in.
- It takes time to start rolling out Panthers
- It also takes time to accumulate veterancy on the Panther, since it has weak AI (1v1 is infantry-spam mode)
- By the time the Panther attains its vet, the match is usually over. Thus, Panther vet (and the unit itself) has no bearing in 1v1.



The Panther also has anti-infantry. It might not be as strong as generalist tanks, but it's there. It is also the only crush-capable Axis tank.

T-34s and E8's have paper armour. They also don't get the insane Panther Vet2/Vet3 bonuses. For units that require flanking to succeed, they also have less speed than the Panther.

Regarding Comet vs Panther. As I have already shown to you, the Panther only wins by a small margin if the both the following conditions hold:
- Panther is at Vet0 AND
- you fight the Comet at max-range.

At Vet2 and above, the Comet has absolutely zero chance (maybe 10%, only at max range).

thank you !!!

Panther is in a pretty good place stat wise. What makes it so great is its combination of speed, firepower and durability which give it the ability to damage, pursue, and get the kill shot on enemy tanks better than anything else. It's also very difficult to kill with its blitz ability, doubly so if the player has doctrinal smoke.

The problem is it's so hard to get in 1v1. With the resources spent researching t4 and building the heavy panzer korps you could have bought a p4, which is often what you need to keep you in the game at that point.

Like all late-game tanks it's hard to balance; making it more accessible for 1v1 creates the risk that it will be too easily spammed in 4v4.

Sorry but the Panther can't have everything. It already has very good frontal armor and great speed, you also have great vet bonuses (looking at you vet 2). The Panther is already a great tank, it doesn't need any changes.

The "good" frontal armor just get countered by Firefly, newly buffed Jackson and SU85.

The "great" speed means nothing when you get 50% accuracy penalty on the move.

And it can't fucking shoot them because it is 10 range short.

Why do you build a panther in first instance?

You don't counter medium with it, for that you use jpz4 or stugs. I have always see panther being useful vs IS2, ISU152, Pershing and maybe to rush a Calliope.
Beside those units, it is always better to build 2 stugs.

The panther is a niche unit, which had better visibility in the past call-in meta than the actual light and medium play meta. So of course the unit is much more useful in 3vs3+ than 1vs1 where it is not really interesting to invest in it.
I don't see anything wrong with that. The unit isn't under-performing, it just lack of traditional preys.

Panter is
- fast speed 6,6 (Luchs 6.7 , Sherman 6.4, T34/85 6.3)
- strong armour 290 (Sherman 160, T34/85 160)
- decent reloading 7,5 sec (Sherman 6.05, T34/85 6.4)
- insane penetration 260 (Sherman 120, T34/85 160)

King of medium tanks. Simply dont use panther versus TD, but versus other tanks. In this role shine.

Panther is a brawler, NOT a DPS monster.

It owns hard every single med in the game, it has 100% penetration against most tanks in game, it has enough mobility to chase and escape, enough armor to not be alpha-strike'd.

Its meant to OUTLAST opposing tanks, not outDPS them and it certainly does NOT deserve proper TD damage, unless it gets similar limitations.

Its NOT Jagdpanther and will never be.

Use the panther to help finish off tanks. It can wait at the edges of battle dropping a shell onto tanks that push too far and then chasing down foolish tanks that did not escape quickly enough. Its armor and speed will ensure it gets in close to finish off another tank.

Any buffs to the Panther, as Mr. Smith pointed out, would be insane because of its amazing vet. Not to mention the OKW Panther which gets even deeper vet and better stats. Be careful about making two Panthers in the game, they would look nearly identical and a player would struggle to know which is shooting at them and hence how to react.

TLDR: Panther is already amazing in everything above 1v1, buffs would decimate larger team games. If anything will happen it is the vet bonuses being moved.

The Panther has no effective use. If someone suggest that it should become effective, all hell breaks loose. While the OKW Panther is somewhat redeemeed by mediocre AI, the Ostheer Panther is a disgrace on tracks. The least thing one could do is give the Ostheer Panther the OKW Panthers stats. The way it is, the Ostheer Panther is not worth building. Hypothetical scenarios where it is at Vet2 don´t change the fact that in almost all real engagements the Panther is a burden rather than helping you. In a game against equally skilled opponents you build a Panther and are hard stressed to counter tanks. A vet 0/1 Panther sucks in this scenario and you are more likely to lose than if you had simply gone for a single StuG.

It is an AT unit that doesn´t have the high damage or 60 range of every other factions AT units. The "high" frontal armor offers little less protection versus AT and is going give even less protection versus AT in the upcoming patch. The armor is pretty much only good for stopping Cromwell/ T-34-76 and Sherman shells. Thus the Panther should offer some AI. Ostheer Panthers stats should be switched to OKW Panther stats so you can actually level it up and make it effective. The way it is now, the Vet2 is theorycrafting and only comes available in the fewest situations.

tl/dr: Ostheer Panther should get OKW Panther stats.

The "good" frontal armor just get countered by Firefly, newly buffed Jackson and SU85.

The "great" speed means nothing when you get 50% accuracy penalty on the move.

And it can't fucking shoot them because it is 10 range short.

firefly is a tank destroyer thet killed tigers in one shoot in WW2
firefly cant kill infentry like panther


and i am sure you are good enough to control your panther without him missing

The "good" frontal armor just get countered by Firefly, newly buffed Jackson and SU85.

The "great" speed means nothing when you get 50% accuracy penalty on the move.

And it can't fucking shoot them because it is 10 range short.

Panther is maybe coutered by TD's because it's a tank you know....

Firefly also has:

Super slow movement, while Panther is NASCAR.

Slower turret rotation

Paper armor, while Panther has best frontal armor in-game aside from super heavy callins

Slower reload

Worse AI, while the panther has an option of a 3rd MG, which can also shoot down planes.

Its a better p4 AT thats good vs armor, has high armor, high pen, and is fast.

The tank itself only has issues vs dedicated AT and even still can kill a jackson by itself most of the time (due to high armor and damage).


That being said the cost is coming down in the next patch as the cost for teching is coming down meaning it comes out earlier than before...woo.

ooo ye you are right you poor aixe funboy ...

if you wont drive on an OP tank you wont be happy you need better and better armor to crash this shermans right !!!


it wasent me thet told usf cant really deal with a panther HOI paul him self told give usf a tank thet could play vs a panther if a faction cant deal with a tank its op ...

If you can't beat a panther with pershing i can't take you seriously. Also "paula himself" wtf... are you somekind of fanboy? lel...

There's a reason the panther was nerfed down to the level it is in right now.

To put it simply the panther can't have evertything. It's combination of speed, armor, and range already makes it more then capable of diving to kill tanks and escaping from potential threats. Better then anything the allies have, only the comet comes close and is still waeker in the AT department despite higher price.


It has a low rate of fire to give the allied players a chance to actually react to it and save their armor, something that was found to be needed after years of axis having a pretty much uncontested late game advantage.

explain how a tank that always misses and shoots slow like a turtle is good at diving?