Rebalancing the Stuka Dive Bomb

When it comes to dodging the Stuka Dive bomb, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is most applicable there. You can either:
- Localize the exact spot where the dive bomb is about to hit
- Have enough time to move your units outside the AoE, once you know where it will hit
- But never both

(if you get the precise spot wrong, you WILL die. Even if you press retreat immediately, you WILL die if the path goes through the AoE)

Stuka Dive Bomb should either:
- Retain the flavor (no flare warnings)
- Or the devastation effect
- But not both


TL;DR: Just copy what Miragefla did in his mod. pls

In a game that promotes squad preservation, etc, the Stuka Dive Bomb has an unacceptably large AoE effect. This is also considering that:
- It comes extremely cheap at 160 Munitions
- The cooldown is only 50 seconds
- Comes with no visible flare, which should warn the player which direction he should be running to
- (It is still possible to use the ability in the base sector )

Stuka Dive Bomb insta-gibs everything on an radius of 15 meters

(by comparison, the Sturmtiger AoE radius is 8 meters. Thus, the area of the Stuka Dive Bomb is 3.5 times bigger)

To give you a demonstration of how big this AoE looks like:

^ You can see the tiny little aiming reticle in the middle of this Pro-blob


^ Note:
1. The humongous area of devastation
2. The fact that the surviving members took no damage
3. None of the bodies right in the middle of the AoE got gibbed (instead of all the remote ones)

Why?

The answer is that the AoE of the stuka dive bomb applies an insta-death critical to all affected squad members (regardless of how much damage they took).

The Stuka-Dive Ninja-buff has increased the killing area by at least 5 times (for no reason)

If we look at the stats over at http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/stuka_500_lb_bomb_mp we can conclude that:
- The ninja-buff MUST have added the insta-gib death critical (the radius of the pre-buff and the post-buff Stuka are identical, but the performance is nowhere the same)
- The one-hit-kill radius must have been AT MOST 6.5

Thus, the ninja-buff increased the killing radius from 6.5 to 15 (that's an area).

If the Stuka Dive Bomb wasn't UP before, and nobody ever asked for a buff, why did it merit a 5-times increase of the killing area?

How does the AoE look like in Miragefla's mod?

(Miragefla also reduced the AoE radius slightly)

Here:

^ You can see that:
- The dive-bomb still packs a lot of punch, if ignored.
- It is, now, possible to dodge in a combat situation, like other, more expensive artillery
- The dive bomb deals damage evenly, on all affected units, according to their radius from the explosion

The one-hit kill radius in Miragefla's mod is around 9.5. This is already bigger than the pre-ninja Stuka-Dive bomb (which was at most 7.5)

How does Stuka Dive Bomb compare to UKF Air Superiority

Assuming you go afk for the 30 seconds, and most obvious telegraphed ability, here are the before and after pics of Air Superiority.

Before:


After:

^ Yes, zooming-out can be a bit deceiving here. Sorry for that.

Now, compare these pics to the current Stuka Dive performance, and recall:
- Stuka Dive costs 160 munitions
- Stuka Dive only affords 5 seconds of warning time
- No warning cycle is painted on the minimap
- You can still retreat while you are being bombarded with the Bombing Run
- Stuka Bomb: one hit, and you're out

"You want to make weak Ostheer even weaker? That's just lame."

If your main concern is the 1v1 performance of Ostheer:

- The last time I checked Stuka Dive Bomb doctrines were out-of-meta in 1v1. Thus any change to that ability will not affect "competitiveness" in this mode.
- The main arguments around Ostheer weaknesses in 1v1 have to do with the early game. Stuka Dive Bomb is a late-game ability. Again, no effect.
- If you believe that OST REALLY needs to crutch on Stuka Dive Bomb to retain its 1v1 rating, wouldn't it be better to buff OST in ways other than are more consistent than an all-or-nothing gamble?

If you are concerned about anything other than 1v1:

- Then don't worry. Ostheer is consistently one of the best-performing factions in these modes (along with OKW and UKF) -- after 222 buffs and the VetBug fix; this is despite UKF cancerplay.

Absolutely agree. Especially if your opponent has spotting abilities, you need to be constantly listening for the sound, and even if you hear it, even if you react perfectly, there is still a big chance you'll lose stuff (especially if you have to evacuate the Major+Ambu combo, which takes an unreasonable ammount of micro).

Hopefully Miragefla's changes (or other ones) make it into the upcoming patch.

But nazies won war because they had nukes .... oh wait ....

stuka dive op? LOL. Playercard?

Dont turn this game into this.

It's a war game, units shall die, its already too forgivin in most times. Look at the sextons mighty punch ffs

yes pls.. nerf ostheer more. cannot kill them quickly enough.

Such a bullpudding ability, no red flares, devastating damage, why it still not fixed?

...

i think if u are a strategist in this forum u shouldn't speak only one sided. Maybe u can add rebalance ideas about allies problem such as cancer regiment counter barrage, command vehicle free recon, ultra cost effective cromwell(with upcoming balance patch its still most cost effective), devastating british artilleries, rifleman with two lmg...

I look at the past 5 or 6 posts... When did CoH.org turn into the official forums?

I look at the past 5 or 6 posts... When did CoH.org turn into the official forums?

Since official forums were closed


Ability is over the top, it has been ninja buffed to the level we know now and the AOE is digustinglty op

stuka dive op? LOL. Playercard?

Funny this is coming from someone whose games are 70% Ostheer...

yes pls.. nerf ostheer more. cannot kill them quickly enough.

Yes, because this absolutely not primarily a teamgame problem in which Ostheer has not some of the best win ratings. *sarcasm off*

Dont turn this game into this.

It's a war game, units shall die, its already too forgivin in most times. Look at the sextons mighty punch ffs

With all due respect, its a strategy game. Play Wargame if you want something unforgiving, because I agree with a need to change this bomb ability since makes artillery commanders useless due to the fact of their fragile state. At least changing the ability should allow artillery units some breathing room, while the ability is still useful at telling blobbers a good reason not to blob.

would you remove the sound too or at least make less sound for that aoe (smaller than ST) ?

only problem i have with stuka is it 1 shots howitzers

lol okay so you want nerf the offmaps now after all the units are nerfed lol....if anything by your post its seems like sturmtiger should get aoe boost

would you remove the sound too or at least make less sound for that aoe (smaller than ST) ?

The main gripe I have vs this ability is that it turns the game into a gamble:
- If I am losing hard, a lucky stuka bomb will bring me back to the game

Having gamble-like abilities is not necessarily bad. However, if the reward (wipes) is so much bigger than the associated risk (munitions), then it becomes broken.


The way I see it, there are two options:

1) Keep Stuka Dive Bomb as it is, but increase its cost and cooldown

This increases the risk aspect of the Stuka Dive Bomb. That way risk matches reward (wipes).

If we want to retain the Stuka-Dive-Bomb at its current performance level (i.e., change nothing), I would say that 300 munitions is a fair cost for the current Stuka Bomb:
- None of the other artillery abilities cost so much devastation
- Even if the enemy is AFK while their infantry is getting shot
- Those other abilities cost about 200-250 munitions AND have a warning flare (so that you know which way to dodge)

If 300 munitions seems unpalatable:
- Have a look at the devastation caused in the 2nd screenshot
- Would even UKF Air Superiority (320 munitions) have achieved a similar result?

NB: Air Superiority comes with a 30 second, telegraphed warning.

2) Remove the insta-gibbing critical vs infantry, but retain the cost

This reduces the reward aspect of Stuka Dive Bomb. That way, again, risk (cost) matches reward.

Even post-nerf, the ability will remain practically impossible to dodge with support weapons/etc.

Given that it is one of the cheapest call-in arty abilities, the Stuka Dive Bomb will remain excellent at:
- Wiping pak-walls
- Wiping veterancy from on-map Howitzers
- Punishing mass retreats to a FRP

yes pls.. nerf ostheer more. cannot kill them quickly enough.

I am genuinely interested in hearing your arguments.

If your main concern is the 1v1 performance of Ostheer:

- The last time I checked Stuka Dive Bomb doctrines were out-of-meta in 1v1. Thus any change to that ability will not affect "competitiveness" in this mode.
- The main arguments around Ostheer weaknesses in 1v1 have to do with the early game. Stuka Dive Bomb is a late-game ability. Again, no effect.
- If you believe that OST REALLY needs to crutch on Stuka Dive Bomb to retain its 1v1 rating, wouldn't it be better to buff OST in ways other than are more consistent than an all-or-nothing gamble?

If you are concerned about anything other than 1v1:

- Then don't worry. Ostheer is consistently one of the best-performing factions in these modes (along with OKW and UKF) -- after the VetBug fix (and despite UKF cancer-play)

I am not a fan of nerfing, but both the IL2Fab and stuka need to have their cost increased to 250M.


Also It is not the only ability capable of oneshotting howies.


And there is definitely something wrong with the AOE in your screenshot, I will provide a graphical representation of its AOE sometime tonight.

But nazies won war.

Then how are you posting here? Ah your post was supposed to be funny.

Then how are you posting here? Ah your post was supposed to be funny.

arcasm:

the only thing i'd like changed in this ability is that it shouldn't be allowed in HQ sectors (like most arty).

A fitting punishment for a blob retreat but too harsh a punishment.

Yeah there was a huge ninja buff to it for no reason. I'm not sure why more poeple aren't pissed about this. It definitely wasn't UP before that.

Also look at that. That's stronger then the B-4 and the railway arty for a cheap call-in with no smoke. That's ridiculous. Anyone defending this has no sense of balance.