Ostheer feels really really weak (POLL)

They do feel underwhelming tbh

Assault Gren, Osstruppen, Sniper, 222, FHT, Stug-E.

FHT and Assault Grenadiers both kinda suck. 222 is a broken unit. Sniper is only strong against US and UKF.

FHT and Assault Grenadiers both kinda suck. 222 is a broken unit. Sniper is only strong against US and UKF.

We are not discussing performance rather than initiative.
Assault Gren lacks scaling, FHT is fine against UKF (specially in cancer mode) or maxim spam. Sniper is good against everything, that it excels on the UKF/USF match up is completely irrelevant since no one complains about OH vs SU.

They're weak for the most part in 2v2s.

Going double Ostheer makes most games very tough to win in most match ups.

When we trash guys like this on the way in, I don't understand why we're surprised when they end up being bitter. People need to be nicer to incoming users.

Who are we kidding here? Ostheer the weakest?
They are the best faction along with USF.

Learn to play the game.

It's a faction that doesn't let you win by blobbing, that's it.

To me, the issue is mostly just the Ostwind being meh and non-ostruppen infantry being weak for cost (Assgren, Storms).

Who are we kidding here? Ostheer the weakest?
They are the best faction along with USF.

Learn to play the game.

It's a faction that doesn't let you win by blobbing, that's it.

Ostheer best faction along with USF? Do you even play the game lol ?

Assault Gren, Osstruppen, Sniper, 222, FHT, Stug-E.

assgrens? LOL

Asking for Ostheer buffs by looking at 1v1 while ignoring the superiour winrate of Ostheer in any other mode won't enhance balance in any way.

Asking for Ostheer buffs by looking at 1v1 while ignoring the superiour winrate of Ostheer in any other mode won't enhance balance in any way.

You do understand that balance is done in the name of 1v1 and 1v1 alone? Your comment is useless.

Asking for Ostheer buffs by looking at 1v1 while ignoring the superiour winrate of Ostheer in any other mode won't enhance balance in any way.

Because there is a high possibility OKW is involved in the higher modes. Most people play OKW. I almost never meet Ostheer players in 2vs2. Double Ostheer in 2vs2 is suicide. Ostheer is good for supporting OKW (caches, Paks, MGs, Command Panzer IV). On its own it is simply lackluster.

assgrens? LOL

Read again. I said they lack scaling and we were talking about initiative.

If i make a T1 opening as SU, we know that it's not the most effective strat but i'm taking the initiative and forcing my opponent to react.

You do understand that balance is done in the name of 1v1 and 1v1 alone? Your comment is useless.

AND you are wrong. Balance is done with 1v1 in thought, but taking into account any heavy implications it might produce on 2v2+ (devs have already mentioned this in the past and have done changes to units regarding their impact on those modes).

IF you do consider that 1v1 should be only mode to be balanced around, then you should also say that we should ONLY balance around top50/100. I know that on your first post you say tops are doing fine, but the whole point of balance is to do so taking into account properly use of units and strats.

I'll change a bit your statements. OH feels weak when not going meta in comparison to other factions not going meta.

Read again. I said they lack scaling and we were talking about initiative.

If i make a T1 opening as SU, we know that it's not the most effective strat but i'm taking the initiative and forcing my opponent to react.

AND you are wrong. Balance is done with 1v1 in thought, but taking into account any heavy implications it might produce on 2v2+ (devs have already mentioned this in the past and have done changes to units regarding their impact on those modes).

IF you do consider that 1v1 should be only mode to be balanced around, then you should also say that we should ONLY balance around top50/100. I know that on your first post you say tops are doing fine, but the whole point of balance is to do so taking into account properly use of units and strats.

I'll change a bit your statements. OH feels weak when not going meta in comparison to other factions not going meta.

That is not what I consider, but we all know 1v1 is the primary input for the balance changes. Sure team games are being thought about when making changes, but that is just to not screw those game modes up completely.

The point is that if you don't go meta as Ostheer, you lose vs any opponent that has the same skill as you or is better than you. Plain and simple. Going double Ostheer in 2v2 is suicide. Without OKW axis wouldn't be winning much of any kind of team games.

You do understand that balance is done in the name of 1v1 and 1v1 alone? Your comment is useless.

If this were true the game would be utterly dead in a couple of months.

Ill be honest with you man, 1v1 ostheer is just fine and is actually consider the most balance faction out of the lot with good units in every category.

I suspect the reason why people feel like this is because its OP features have been rebalance and as a result now forces them to be extra mindful about their approach

I dunno what Ostheer meta even is lol. I really don't go into games as them with a real preset plan of what I'm going to do (whereas as US, for instance, I might plan to go Riflemen into fast Captain into Stuart or something). It's almost always just me reacting to what my opponent is doing.

The only semi-viable aggressive strats that I can think of off the top of my head are Ostruppen spam or 222 spam.

I dunno what Ostheer meta even is lol. I really don't go into games as them with a real preset plan of what I'm going to do (whereas as US, for instance, I might plan to go Riflemen into fast Captain into Stuart or something). It's almost always just me reacting to what my opponent is doing.

The only semi-viable aggressive strats that I can think of off the top of my head are Ostruppen spam or 222 spam.

That's what I normally go through when I play Ostheer. Most of the time, aggressive strategies are extremely painful to pull off for Ostheer, especially due to the British death machines known as 'emplacements'. Ostheer has the stopping power necessary to hold back enemies, but when it comes to offense, their only true reliable options are found in late game. By the time late game hits, you either are swarmed by the enemy, or you barely get by. Late game is out of the question if you fail to exceed during the early portion of the game. If you loose the early game, you'll be surely annihilated by mid/late game.

That's why I consider Ostheer to be the least forgiving faction out of them all (not to mention the low squad size). It's painful...

Ill be honest with you man, 1v1 ostheer is just fine and is actually consider the most balance faction out of the lot with good units in every category.

I suspect the reason why people feel like this is because its OP features have been rebalance and as a result now forces them to be extra mindful about their approach

Exactly, people say the faction is UP becouse there is no OP unit that clearly stands out so you can abuse it. Instead imballancing ostheer becouse community is bored they should rather ballance OP and UP units of other factions so that there is no weak spot for abusers in all factions. The only thing that needs touching about ostheer is the their commanders, many of them happen to underperform.

I think the problem is OH vs USF infantry wise, and OH vs UKF armour wise

USF riflemen are jack of all trades, able to smoke, nade, double LMGs, double Zooks.

OH is combined arms, using MGs and MTs, but it's difficult and micro intensive to fight off between 4-6 riflemen squads that are able to smoke and shoot LMGs on the move.. then retreat all the way back to base, meanwhile the counterpart has a FRP.

OH HAS TO GO TIER 2 EVERY GAME for quick AT to counter allied light vehicles that have the capabilites to easily reduce a squad by 50-75% or wipe them completely.

Being a combined arm fashion, it's hard to recrew weapon teams.

Must have a unit to actually build tiers, reducing field presence of a flamer/mine sweeper, as for everyone else except soviets. Tech doesn't require a unit to build, and results in a new benifital element, units/arty/rep/heal etc.

Mines wipe grens far too often, stray motor rounds, and is near impossible to counter sim city until late game abilities are available

OH is always REACTING to enemy decisions

Forced commander choice upon UKF game style

Bofers are Anti OH tier 3 and below. Able to kill AT guns, MTs, with the barrage ability.. and is able to reliability pen p4s and stugs.

Comets, Anti everything..

Add 5th squad memember to grens. Maybe a LMG that is able to fire on the move..