Panzerwerfer vs Emplacements - make it burn!

Fixed it for you, because the upper four aspects definitely belong to OKW.

OKW was such "everything at once" faction, and it was problem those days and I wrote about it a lot on official forums. But... here came UKF and even OKW looks like "very nice designed and balanced faction" compared with it.

I only think, that if they giving to faction so powerful defensive game with tough and strong emplacements - let it have no real offencive gameplay then, or really difficult and overpriced offencive gameplay. It's reasonable, it worked in vCoH. And it works with USSR, but in another way. USSR don't have any defencive structures and their defensive gameplay is complicated and requires a lot of micro, head ache and such things, but for that - offensive HMGs, offensive spammable tanks, offensive spammable infantry... It's trade - powerful offensive to non-existed defencive.

So, why is it not allowable to USSR to have both defencive and offensive gameplay, but allowable to UKF? Why UKF have in stock tanks, compareable in power with Tiger and in same time - emplacements, which covers half of map with fire and destroying everything, even their counters, but when I suggest to give to USSR "defensive HMG bunkers for to make point and frontline protection less problematic" everyone says "You gonna make USSR OP, nevar!!!"?

Where is logic of faction balance then? One factions have everything, other have to suck and everyone admits it as normal, just because "1v1 stats show us, that everything is fine". They are fine because people are skilful enough to play as such shitty faction and win, not because it's good.

OKW was such "everything at once" faction, and it was problem those days and I wrote about it a lot on official forums. But... here came UKF and even OKW looks like "very nice designed and balanced faction" compared with it.

OKW still is, especially after the balance mod will come out. No Infantry crush for Cromwells + its size nerf + Snare for OKW + non-doctrinal MG. OKW will profit from this changes. OKW has very powerful early + strongest late game and a mid game that just feels okay.

I only think, that if they giving to faction so powerful defensive game with tough and strong emplacements - let it have no real offencive gameplay then, or really difficult and overpriced offencive gameplay. It's reasonable, it worked in vCoH. And it works with USSR, but in another way. USSR don't have any defencive structures and their defensive gameplay is complicated and requires a lot of micro, head ache and such things, but for that - offensive HMGs, offensive spammable tanks, offensive spammable infantry... It's trade - powerful offensive to non-existed defencive.

So, why is it not allowable to USSR to have both defencive and offensive gameplay, but allowable to UKF? Why UKF have in stock tanks, compareable in power with Tiger and in same time - emplacements, which covers half of map with fire and destroying everything, even their counters, but when I suggest to give to USSR "defensive HMG bunkers for to make point and frontline protection less problematic" everyone says "You gonna make USSR OP, nevar!!!"?

Where is logic of faction balance then? One factions have everything, other have to suck and everyone admits it as normal, just because "1v1 stats show us, that everything is fine". They are fine because people are skilful enough to play as such shitty faction and win, not because it's good.

What I wanted to say is, that brits have the weakest early game. So they are bad at something actually. The missing snare and absence of early-mid offensive units can be abused by your opponent. At the moment the mortar pit makes up for this. As I said I'm not a fan of static play and I never played this bs emplacement commander, but I think without mortar pit they would really have a hard time unless something else fills the gap. I don't think brits have a good design but neither have OKW or USF. Yeah, some Soviet/Ostheer units need more care, but in the whole I like their basic design the most, becasue they have less bs mechanics as the three newer factions.

waiting for the panzerwerfer to counter emplacement is kind of late. The game is going to be long over by then.

the bofor barrage needs a range nerf and the mortar emplacement need an autofire range nerf. The problem right now is that the bofor counter its own counter and the mortar emplacement cover too much ground.

What do you think about turning the Bofors barrage ability into suppression only (so it does 0 damage)?

What do you think about turning the Bofors barrage ability into suppression only (so it does 0 damage)?

Personally, I think, that Bofors should be pretty much like Bofors from vCoH. No abilites, no supression and pretty low accuracy at infantry, but - tough damage at same infantry (when it hits) and light vechiles. For to supress and keep infantry crowds under control UKF may use Vikkers HMGs without any problems.

What do you think about turning the Bofors barrage ability into suppression only (so it does 0 damage)?

the bofor round still do enough damage to wreck axis squad, especially the ost 4 men squad.

the bofor emplacement shouldn't get an ability to kill its own counter.

the bofor round still do enough damage to wreck axis squad, especially the ost 4 men squad.

the bofor emplacement shouldn't get an ability to kill its own counter.

I mean either its some kind of "air burst" shell that causes the suppression, or just have the ability only supress but do 0 damage for every round (if that is possible).

just target table on the weapon to do extra damage against emplacements.

/fixed

Remove brace so any attack against the structure actually does damage, not just a actual press of a button to prevent 90% of incoming damage.

Emplacements are a problem in 2v2s.

Remove brace so any attack against the structure actually does damage, not just a actual press of a button to prevent 90% of incoming damage.

Emplacements are a problem in 2v2s.

Then you have the problem that emplacements get oneshotted like howitzers by offmaps/onmaps. Why you should ever spent 75 fuel + manpower to build a 17pdr emplacement? The problem is not solved that easy.

Then you have the problem that emplacements get oneshotted like howitzers by offmaps/onmaps. Why you should ever spent 75 fuel + manpower to build a 17pdr emplacement? The problem is not solved that easy.

Okay? And what about OH arty. Or OKW/OH AT emplacements. They cost MP and fuel. But they don't have a magic forcefield. OH constantly has to pick a commander on what the Brit decides to do. British emplacements should be used as a luxury support unit. Not a sim city play style that is able to support itself.

What I wanted to say is, that brits have the weakest early game.

You smoking crack or something?

I've lost so many games to all OKW vs all Brits because they've placed that friggin Vickers in ALL available ambients.... it was GG 3 minutes in.
Dont tell me they have weak early game.
IS are currently the strongest infantry of all

just target table on the weapon to do extra damage against emplacements.

/fixed

+1
Just what I was thinking.

Okay? And what about OH arty. Or OKW/OH AT emplacements. They cost MP and fuel. But they don't have a magic forcefield.

Ohh, all that fuel you need to use on these 20 pop cap PaK43s.
Show Spoiler

OH constantly has to pick a commander on what the Brit decides to do. British emplacements should be used as a luxury support unit. Not a sim city play style that is able to support itself.

Bullshit.
The only units that should be luxury support units are doctrinal ones.
Stock units are called and function as stock units for a reason you know-its the core you have at your disposal.

Plus, I sure hope you realize that removing brace would equal removing bonus damage from anything that isn't rifle and possible HP buff, which would in turn result in units which quickly destroy it when brace is off cooldown to do constant, but lower DPS on higher hp poll unit. Why hp increase? so you can't destroy it with one click-should I remember what has happened when USF/UKF off maps were destroying OKW trucks and how people were losing minds over that? Given it was valid concern, but exactly the same principle would apply here.

Okay? And what about OH and soviet arty.

You missed that out so I fixed it for you to prove that you have an eye on all factions. I always voted for a change of this mechanic. Even a vet3 a howitzer is instantly killed by a bunch of offmaps. Scout Plane + for example Stuka 50kg bomb or IL2 Bombing run and its finished of. Click+Click+Click+Click = dead howitzer. What a silly game mechanic, there is just nothing you can do about it. Both howitzers cost only MP at least, but it is stupid nevertheless. If the howitzer itself would only decrewed by offmaps as long as a crew is manning it, it would take some more effort to completely kill it.

Or OKW/OH AT emplacements. They cost MP and fuel. But they don't have a magic forcefield.

1) they cost no fuel (as Katitof stated in a rather ironic way)
2) they cost half popcap and can be remanned, they can be positioned behind buildings because they can shoot through it (this is adding to survivability)
3) it is still not okay to oneshot them without any skill with a single offmap attack

The only axis emplacement that is hilarious up on itself is the OKW flak emplacement. This one costs fuel and it is so bad, that you never want to build it.

British emplacements should be used as a luxury support unit. Not a sim city play style that is able to support itself.

Don't like the emplacement commander, I got him dropped but I'm refusing to put him in my commander layout for brits. Emplacements without this commander are beatable. Just nerf this commander into the ground, I'm okay with that.

Maybe the Panzerwerfer should stun emplacements for a duration and can only be repaired by Royal Engineers. The stun will force the emplacements to decrease rate of fire, accuracy, and increase scatter.

Just throwing out and idea...

You smoking crack or something?

Please ask yourself: Does this sentence contributes in any way to a reaonable and respectful debatte?

I've lost so many games to all OKW vs all Brits because they've placed that friggin Vickers in ALL available ambients.... it was GG 3 minutes in.

I personally don't find it that hard to incendiary-nade them if I attack with two squads out of two different angles. Vickers has very low supression, so one squad should come through. The only exception to this are maybe maps with a lot of ambient buildings close together, but thats bad map making not a problem of faction design. On the other side I fought some of my most dominant games as OKW on building heavy maps with a double stormpioneer start. Lets wait for balance mod to get implemented, OKW will have its own MG then.

Dont tell me they have weak early game.
IS are currently the strongest infantry of all

So now its my turn: Don't know what drugs you are taking but I want them too ;-) Sorry for that, just a little ironic tit for tat to prove that I'm not humorless entirely.

The strongest infantry of the game:
- is rather expensive
- has high reinforcement costs
- has pop cost above average for standard infantry units
- gets combat penalties out of cover
- has no snare and no good handheld AT
- has no reliable options versus units in buildings
- has only four men by default and is very prone to fastest sniper fire by OH
- scales worse than most other standard infantry units with vet
- is bugged with that damned scoped rifle upgrade at vet3
- takes a lot of teching costs and upgrades worth 150 munitions to make it useful for mid and lategame

They can be quite handy if played the right way but thats it. Let me think about it... when was I steamrolled by an allround IS blob the last time? Oh wait... that never happend... sigh...

Okay? And what about OH arty. Or OKW/OH AT emplacements. They cost MP and fuel. But they don't have a magic forcefield. OH constantly has to pick a commander on what the Brit decides to do. British emplacements should be used as a luxury support unit. Not a sim city play style that is able to support itself.

For it to be a 'luxury', there needs to be a non-emplacement equivalent. Only the 17 Pounder has one. Where is the Mortar Pit or Bofors equivalents?

OKW/OH Emplacements don't need to be as strong as British emplacements as they do not focus on them, design wise. Ostheer is the closest to the British, but they put more focus on Team Weapons/Support Units.

I personally don't find it that hard to incendiary-nade them if I attack with two squads out of two different angles.

So now its my turn: Don't know what drugs you are taking but I want them too ;-) Sorry for that, just a little ironic tit for tat to prove that I'm not humorless entirely.

They can be quite handy if played the right way but thats it. Let me think about it... when was I steamrolled by an allround IS blob the last time? Oh wait... that never happend... sigh...

Good post Comrade.
No fuel for tech = no nades = gg.
SturmPio rush is best rush.

Ostheer is the closest to the British

Mate, pls

Mate, pls

It's a fair point. Both are defensive factions with good team weapons/emplacements, long-ranged mainline infantry that are weak up close, and a reliance on stock late-game armour to be aggressive. The differences mainly come down to when they were designed (teching structure, repair speeds, veterancy) and faction fluff differences.

Honestly, I'd say UKF are the second-best designed faction in the game (Ostheer being the best).

It's a fair point. Both are defensive factions with good team weapons/emplacements, long-ranged mainline infantry that are weak up close, and a reliance on stock late-game armour to be aggressive. The differences mainly come down to when they were designed (teching structure, repair speeds, veterancy) and faction fluff differences.

Honestly, I'd say UKF are the second-best designed faction in the game (Ostheer being the best).

Weak up close?
Wut?
Mate, PanzerGrens eat everything besides ShockTroops for breakfast.
Shocks win only coz of that extra man.

Anywho, I see we have come to an agreement.

@Miss:
I still dont understand why some people consistently flame you.
Sure you add your input, and sure many disagree - but no need for hate (inb4 white knight)