Mediums without crush are not performing their role as infantry deterrents. The increase in snares should have already addressed the crushing problem. If the issue is the cromwell and the Wolverine I would recommend removing it from those two alone, although I think that the point of the cromwell is to lance in and try to punish infantry.
I never considered these units to be overperforming. An AT only tank crushing infantry just means that you are free to use snares or AT guns since the player is quite low on actual AI.
Another option might be to slow down the tank every time it hits an infantry model (can this be done?). This would limit the rate at which squads could be crushed.
Week 3 Update to the Balance Mod
19 May 2016, 15:11 PM
#101
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
19 May 2016, 15:14 PM
#102
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Shrecks on Spios is a big difference than on volks. 4 man squad vs 5 means its way more vulnerable to explosives (just like Pgrens and grens), they are more expensive to buy and reinforce, and they lose ~25% of their firepower with the upgrade (especially since they nerfed dmg of handheld AT weapons vs infantry).
I don't think Spio blobs will replace volks blobs.
Most important thing which you missed: They can't be driven over, which was one of main volkblob counter.
And 2nd most important, there is AT snare for OKW now as well.
Spios shrecks+volk vause and StG means the potential for OPness is much greater then with volkblob alone as spios acc vet ensures shreck amazing long range accuracy and faust ensures vehicles constantly on the move in the opposing direction.
In short, you have less shrecks, but incomparably more potent AT.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 May 2016, 15:21 PM
#103
Posts: 474
Spios shrecks+volk vause and StG means the potential for OPness is much greater then with volkblob alone as spios acc vet ensures shreck amazing long range accuracy and faust ensures vehicles constantly on the move in the opposing direction.
In short, you have less shrecks, but incomparably more potent AT.
19 May 2016, 15:38 PM
#104
19 Posts: 1295 | Subs: 1
great changes well done relic
19 May 2016, 16:06 PM
#105
Posts: 179
Most important thing which you missed: They can't be driven over, which was one of main volkblob counter.
And 2nd most important, there is AT snare for OKW now as well.
Which is 100% BS. The Panzerfaust should be removed from the volks. or atleast be a Doctrinal Bonus in a commander.
19 May 2016, 17:05 PM
#106
Posts: 132
Which is 100% BS. The Panzerfaust should be removed from the volks. or atleast be a Doctrinal Bonus in a commander.
But the Panzerfaust was probably the most common and dangerous infantry AT weapon of the period, it'd be like removing PPsHs from Soviets... oh wait.....
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
19 May 2016, 17:14 PM
#107
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Which is 100% BS. The Panzerfaust should be removed from the volks. or atleast be a Doctrinal Bonus in a commander.
Another option is to tie the Faust to the STG Package - would make them less omni-present initially and reward you for squad wipes.
19 May 2016, 17:40 PM
#108
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
-Rollback medium crush change. If the problem is M10/Cromwell, just reduce slightly rotation rate. As a last choice, remove it from the M10.
-I know this is a preview patch, but what's the point of doing triple buffs? Wouldn't either damage or better AOE profile on nade work instead of both?
-Compare KV1 with Churchill
-Cromwell size was a long overdue. Wouldn't it be better to put it at 22 with the rest of the mediums bar M4s? (I find it funny calling it a "slightly" increase of size although
)
-USF mortar shouldn't be an OH mortar
-I know this is a preview patch, but what's the point of doing triple buffs? Wouldn't either damage or better AOE profile on nade work instead of both?
-Compare KV1 with Churchill
-Cromwell size was a long overdue. Wouldn't it be better to put it at 22 with the rest of the mediums bar M4s? (I find it funny calling it a "slightly" increase of size although
)-USF mortar shouldn't be an OH mortar
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 May 2016, 18:15 PM
#109
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
But the Panzerfaust was probably the most common and dangerous infantry AT weapon of the period, it'd be like removing PPsHs from Soviets... oh wait.....
19 May 2016, 18:46 PM
#110
Posts: 526
It actually makes the problem deeper as OKW now have shrecks AND snare AND volk potent AI upgrade.
Special snowflake forever.
Must be why they lost every game in the recent balance preview tournament...
You should try looking at evidence in the field rather than what things look like on paper.
19 May 2016, 18:59 PM
#111
Posts: 149 | Subs: 1
wait? mediums are cant crush now?
19 May 2016, 19:08 PM
#112
Posts: 1930
as a note, the infantry still react to the tank and will dodge out of the way, but the tank will just phase through the infantry harmlessly without the crush.
19 May 2016, 23:15 PM
#113
Posts: 4474
and weapon less conscript and no retreat
But the Panzerfaust was probably the most common and dangerous infantry AT weapon of the period, it'd be like removing PPsHs from Soviets... oh wait.....
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
19 May 2016, 23:29 PM
#114
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
and weapon less conscript and no retreat
Pretty sure the former almost never happened (though lacking ammunition happened for sure at the worst of Red Army's times), and the latter happened for just three months. So putting in the last one would be like refusing to put in German planes at all because of how torn up the Luftwaffe ended up by the war's end.
20 May 2016, 00:03 AM
#115
Posts: 1072
Most important thing which you missed: They can't be driven over, which was one of main volkblob counter.
And 2nd most important, there is AT snare for OKW now as well.
Spios shrecks+volk vause and StG means the potential for OPness is much greater then with volkblob alone as spios acc vet ensures shreck amazing long range accuracy and faust ensures vehicles constantly on the move in the opposing direction.
In short, you have less shrecks, but incomparably more potent AT.
Shrecks on Spios and Faust's for volks = OPness
AT base + 2x bazookas on riflemen =/= OPness
Hmm k. Makes... sense. Sure whatever you want man.
Wait for it.... rifles can't be crushed either and couldn't really before the patch either
20 May 2016, 00:44 AM
#116
Posts: 160
Lelic logic instead of reducing movement speed of M10/Cromwell >.<
Aka Danny
20 May 2016, 14:15 PM
#117
1 Posts: 1276
Mediums without crush are not performing their role as infantry deterrents. The increase in snares should have already addressed the crushing problem. If the issue is the cromwell and the Wolverine I would recommend removing it from those two alone, although I think that the point of the cromwell is to lance in and try to punish infantry.
I never considered these units to be overperforming. An AT only tank crushing infantry just means that you are free to use snares or AT guns since the player is quite low on actual AI.
Another option might be to slow down the tank every time it hits an infantry model (can this be done?). This would limit the rate at which squads could be crushed.
You could turn infantry units into Deep snow lol. Other than that, I think the engine limitations wouldn't allow for a physical slow downs based on infantry models ran over unless you created a new modifier that is toggled when you hit a model. The new ability would be applied to the tank and would down a certain % points vs acceleration/top speed as soon as it hits a model, it would work much like vehicle stuns. Another option would be a toggle where the main gun wouldn't work and you would promote micro use of the as well as having a long cooldown to make it risky.
Other than that I think we can all agree that just a simple change to the speed of the cromwell could have fixed this large issue people have. Coupled with the new changes to volks snares, I think the changes to crush are silly and lazily applied when there are way better options available.
Other than that, I would have liked to see more changes.
- Brummbar front armor reduction as its already very high, and the price reduction makes it come out earlier. Another change should be the stun/ 80% deflection damage.
- Give ISG smoke barrage either at vet 1 or for 5~15 muni
- Re-decrease MP price of t-34 to 280~290
- Add brit Snare into nade tech, keep nade tech at 150 + 15 Fuel
- increase Bofors FU price by 10
- Decrease major Price from 120 to 100~110
- Jagtiger HE round brought inline with its main gun range 128 -> 85
- valentine CP reduction or decrease price.
- Reduce USF nade tech by 5 fuel
- standardize Sniper cloak times
- decrease WC-51 price from 30 ->15 fuel, match price of Solv scout car, increase to 1cp
- increase pen slightly (by 5) for comet to bring it more in line with other units of this tier
- Decrease volk flame nade price from 30 -> 15, match stats of molo to still help counter buildings
- Increase USF mortar price from 240-> 260
- increase ez8 pen to help its mid - late game viability, possibly just a 10 increase.
- Reduce OKW FRP MP price from 250 -> 150mp
- Decrease Fuel price (slightly 5~10) of Both AAHT (OKW/USF) variant to increase their viability in early game light armor.
Edit: @10:34 for spelling and readability
20 May 2016, 14:24 PM
#118
Posts: 47
I am so happy they reconsider and changed the crushing mechanics. It was sooo OP.
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20 May 2016, 16:10 PM
#119
Posts: 721
The thing about commandos is that they don't have much combat veterancy (more utility) so they needed a strong nade to be relevant.
Squads that get the bundle grenade on the other hand do get nice veterancy and now they have a nade even stronger than the light gammon bomb. Why? Sure the bundle nade was underperforming but it only needed a slight tweak.
light gammon bomb has shorter fuse time ( most important) and i think better aoe far damage.
Also relic plz look at falls they suck terribly especially against vet 3 rifles and tommies
20 May 2016, 19:19 PM
#120
Posts: 88 | Subs: 1
Another option is to tie the Faust to the STG Package - would make them less omni-present initially and reward you for squad wipes.
That's a cool idea.
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