Ostheer repair speed

speaking for a 2v2 and 2v2+ perspective I think ostheer falls behind the much superior repair speed of other factions (okw,brits and americans). All the ostheer tanks are great for thier price and performance but I think they spend too much time off the field repairing, which will now happen even more with the CHARGED UP tank destroyers in the upcoming patch. so i propose 2 options

1 : pionneer repair kit upgrade - 100 Muni (squad CANNOT upgrade minesweepers or Flamers now)

2 : repair station = 150 manpower to build and 75 muni to upgrade (repair rate of vet2 pioneers)

There is much talk of the tiger being underpowered an all but I think its not the case. It just spends way too much time off the feild reparing compared to KT or Pershing or the Churchill varients. The upcoming tank destroyer changes will make this problem worse.

What do you guys think about it?


EDIT : Soviets could use the repair kit upgrade also, since they have same repair speed as ost.

speaking for a 2v2 and 2v2+ perspective I think ostheer falls behind the much superior repair speed of other factions (okw,brits and americans). All the ostheer tanks are great for thier price and performance but I think they spend too much time off the field repairing, which will now happen even more with the CHARGED UP tank destroyers in the upcoming patch. so i propose 2 options

1 : pionneer repair kit upgrade - 100 Muni (squad CANNOT upgrade minesweepers or Flamers now)

2 : repair station = 150 manpower to build and 75 muni to upgrade (repair rate of vet2 pioneers)

There is much talk of the tiger being underpowered an all but I think its not the case. It just spends way too much time off the feild reparing compared to KT or Pershing or the Churchill varients. The upcoming tank destroyer changes will make this problem worse.

What do you guys think about it?

What would you say about soviets then? They have same repair speed and only one doctrine that boosts repairs, so they would fall behind ost really badly after such nondoctrinal changes. Ostheer pioneer at least is good for scouting when its not repairing or mining, soviet engineer has nothing to it.

EDIT:

EDIT : Soviets could use the repair kit upgrade also, since they have same repair speed as ost.

I've seen the edit. Repair station seems to look well in terms of faction design, it should be 60 muni couse its a standard price for bunker upgrade, it also should need BP2 to upgrade. But soviets need something to compensate.

Maybe conscript repair could go non-doc and all doctrines that have it could get repair stations? That would be interesting to play both with and against and would make some forgotten doctrines worth trying again IMO.

100 muni for a repair pack?

AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA....

What would you say about soviets then? They have same repair speed and only one doctrine that boosts repairs, so they would fall behind ost really badly after such nondoctrinal changes.

They actually have a whole bunch of repair abilities. On top of cheaper engineers to start with, there's also vehicle self-repair, conscript repair, and windustry's repair stations.

They actually have a whole bunch of repair abilities. On top of cheaper engineers to start with, there's also vehicle self-repair, conscript repair, and windustry's repair stations.

I said only about industry since conscripts are generally not worth it in numbers right now so conscript repair is not that much used and vehicle self repair is problematic to use becouse you can't stop it and it doesnt repair if infantry is shooting at the tank, meaning its much better to just buy more engies even if you have the doctrine. Non-doc T-70 self repair is different and much better but we are talking about repairing heavies in late game.

Also, this are all doctrinal abilities, and main soviet IS-2 doctrine (shock rifle frontline) doesnt have any of them, while in case of ostheer all tiger doctrines would benefit from nondoc repair buff. As for engi cost - pios are both better at fithing and can scout, there is no reason why they should cost the same.

I said only about industry since conscripts are generally not worth it in numbers right now so conscript repair is not that much used and vehicle self repair is problematic to use becouse you can't stop it and it doesnt repair if infantry is shooting at the tank, meaning its much better to just buy more engies even if you have the doctrine. Non-doc T-70 self repair is different and much better but we are talking about repairing heavies in late game.

Also, this are all doctrinal abilities, and main soviet IS-2 doctrine (shock rifle frontline) doesnt have any of them, while in case of ostheer all tiger doctrines would benefit from nondoc repair buff. As for engi cost - pios are both better at fithing and can scout, there is no reason why they should cost the same.

There is is2 doc with self repair.. but pls lets not make this a soviet vs ost thing. There are 3 other vastly superior repairing factions that i think ost needs to have some parity with

There is is2 doc with self repair.. but pls lets not make this a soviet vs ost thing. There are 3 other vastly superior repairing factions that i think ost needs to have some parity with

Well, I agree that ost needs it. I even said that the upgrade you proposed should be cheaper. I just don't want soviets to fall behind since I think both factions share the same problem.

And I would never use self repair on IS-2. It often means you are letting enemy kill the tank. Even in base its just asking for stuka dive bomb. If ostheer had such an ability IL2 would see much more use, as it kills immobilised tiger instantly if you line bombs correctly.

Rather than just copying other faction's basic repair mechanisms, why not add in cut content?

In Ardennes Assault, M3 Halftracks can be upgraded to toggle to repair nearby vehicles, basically a vehicle version of Ambulance. This can be an alternate utility upgrade for Ostheer (and/or Soviet?) halftracks; like the weapon upgrades, reinforcement (and transport?) is lost, but you gain a light vehicle that can run around healing friendly vehicles in a pinch. Pioniers will be a useful supplement in even the halftrack is lost or otherwise not yet available.

There is also the cut content of Ostheer's Forward HQ that spawns mechanics instead of medics, text description also claims it allowed forward retreat point. I've never seen this even in mods that feature the ability, though, it was just Soviet Forward HQ but mechanics instead of medics.

I was also thinking of a further repair speed at vet3, but the odds of Pioniers reaching that high and being retained just for repairs is rather slim; flamethrower Pioniers at vet3 are more useful when you keep them doing housecleaning.

Rather than just copying other faction's basic repair mechanisms, why not add in cut content?

In Ardennes Assault, M3 Halftracks can be upgraded to toggle to repair nearby vehicles, basically a vehicle version of Ambulance. This can be an alternate utility upgrade for Ostheer (and/or Soviet?) halftracks; like the weapon upgrades, reinforcement (and transport?) is lost, but you gain a light vehicle that can run around healing friendly vehicles in a pinch. Pioniers will be a useful supplement in even the halftrack is lost or otherwise not yet available.

There is also the cut content of Ostheer's Forward HQ that spawns mechanics instead of medics, text description also claims it allowed forward retreat point. I've never seen this even in mods that feature the ability, though, it was just Soviet Forward HQ but mechanics instead of medics.

I was also thinking of a further repair speed at vet3, but the odds of Pioniers reaching that high and being retained just for repairs is rather slim; flamethrower Pioniers at vet3 are more useful when you keep them doing housecleaning.

Nice idea. The ostheer forward hq with repair was an abilty in a scrapped commander (the one with 5 man pzzgrens with flamers). It was doctrinal counterpart to the soviet forward hq, except you could also upgrade it to retreat point.
This is nice and cool but id rather have a non-doctrinal way of buffing up the repair speed. Repair kit upgrade or repairstation kinda seem like easier to do

Sure, move the reinforce and medic station upgrade for the bunkers in just one upgrade that costs, let's say 100 or 120 munitions and add a forward retreat point to it, then make a 3rd upgrade that acts like the repair bunker one from CoH, 60 muni, 3/4 repair pioneers. Done, 3 problems solved with just one building.

Soviets are harder to do tho, with on-field stuff as they don't really have any other defenses outside of sandbag walls and those repair stations which are doctrinal, but then again in CoH the only Army that had those repair bunker upgrades were the Wehrmacht so if you want asymmetrical balance... Maybe add that ZiS-6 truck with 2 upgrades or give the M5 Half-track 2 upgrades, one for a field hospital and one for a mobile repair post like the one already included in the game, I think the Single Player 251 Wehr half-track already had such an upgrade, as well as the USF in the AA campaign for their M3, altho it's a bit wasted on them since the USF can just pop out of their vehicles instead but eh...

Sure, move the reinforce and medic station upgrade for the bunkers in just one upgrade that costs, let's say 100 or 120 munitions and add a forward retreat point to it, then make a 3rd upgrade that acts like the repair bunker one from CoH, 60 muni, 3/4 repair pioneers. Done, 3 problems solved with just one building.

Soviets are harder to do tho, with on-field stuff as they don't really have any other defenses outside of sandbag walls and those repair stations which are doctrinal, but then again in CoH the only Army that had those repair bunker upgrades were the Wehrmacht so if you want asymmetrical balance... Maybe add that ZiS-6 truck with 2 upgrades or give the M5 Half-track 2 upgrades, one for a field hospital and one for a mobile repair post like the one already included in the game, I think the Single Player 251 Wehr half-track already had such an upgrade, as well as the USF in the AA campaign for their M3, altho it's a bit wasted on them since the USF can just pop out of their vehicles instead but eh...

I like the truck idea for soviets: fragile like katy but with range of abilities, so that you had to change its placement often or hide it well. Could have 3 upgrades to choose from: either repairs, medics or FRP&reinforce. With miragefla changes to unit spawning it would be also cool if it could produce engieneers. Perhaps also transport troops when not set up.

Both the vanilla factions fall behind in terms of repair speed when compared to the other factions. Giving them a repair speed bonus when minesweepers are upgraded would be a start.

Usf have vehicle crews, okw have the mech truck+sturmpios who already repair fast and get a repair speed increase after upgrading minesweeper and they can put away their sweeper too unlike the vanilla factions. Brits can get anvil engineers and even if they don't the normal engis still repair faster than pios or combat engis.

It just doesn't make sense that these factions should get a significant advantage over the vanilla ones.

I believe that most people think that OST has the slowest repair speed but that not true. Its sims that way because most OST Tanks have more HPs (Tigers, KTs...). I may be totally wrong here. And who says that US have fast repair speed? The crews are not repairing that fast.

I believe that most people think that OST has the slowest repair speed but that not true. Its sims that way because most OST Tanks have more HPs (Tigers, KTs...). I may be totally wrong here. And who says that US have fast repair speed? The crews are not repairing that fast.

Ost has no access to KT, Tiger doesnt even have that much hp and panther has a lot of armor but not much hp. P4, ostwind and stug have little hp but the repair speed is so slow that it still takes quite a lot of time to repair them. Us crews repair a little slower but there is always plenty of them and you dont have to buy them while other factions sometimes have problems finding manpower for additional engineer unit in late game. Also crews don't eat your popcap becouse all usf vehicles have crew pop substracted from standard pop for unit class.

Not to mention that REs are worthy spammable combat infantry, even long range, with additional weapons while ost and soviet engineers can at most have flamethrower. That means you can use your combat infantry for fast repairs - RE repair speed is the same that pios have so its much, much better than for example conscript repair (that is very slow)

I believe that most people think that OST has the slowest repair speed but that not true. Its sims that way because most OST Tanks have more HPs (Tigers, KTs...). I may be totally wrong here. And who says that US have fast repair speed? The crews are not repairing that fast.

First off, KT is for OKW not ostheer.
Second, USFs have tank crews that can hop out and repair their tanks which means they don't have to purchase RETs to repair. Its like having a free 3 man pios squad for each vehicle you have.

The Ostheer tanks really don't have more HP than their allied counterparts.

Both the vanilla factions fall behind in terms of repair speed when compared to the other factions. Giving them a repair speed bonus when minesweepers are upgraded would be a start.

Usf have vehicle crews, okw have the mech truck+sturmpios who already repair fast and get a repair speed increase after upgrading minesweeper and they can put away their sweeper too unlike the vanilla factions. Brits can get anvil engineers and even if they don't the normal engis still repair faster than pios or combat engis.

It just doesn't make sense that these factions should get a significant advantage over the vanilla ones.

+1

Both the vanilla factions fall behind in terms of repair speed when compared to the other factions. Giving them a repair speed bonus when minesweepers are upgraded would be a start.

Usf have vehicle crews, okw have the mech truck+sturmpios who already repair fast and get a repair speed increase after upgrading minesweeper and they can put away their sweeper too unlike the vanilla factions. Brits can get anvil engineers and even if they don't the normal engis still repair faster than pios or combat engis.

It just doesn't make sense that these factions should get a significant advantage over the vanilla ones.

it made sense for okw when it had the crippled resources so that thier tanks could stay on the frontline most of the time. Its ok for vanilla factions also BUT when ost is up against wfa+ factions, its at a disadvantage. Same for soviet vs okw (since the damn KT comes back in 30secs after you almost killed it and it ran away.)

Part of the issue is that only EFA engineer do not have access to Lmg and AT weapon upgrades that allow WFA engineers vet much faster and have access to far better vet abilities. WFA engineer simply have to much utility...

Time for some numbers.

ostheer:
default repair : 1.6 *4(men) = 6.4 / vet2 = 10.4

soviet:
default repair : 1.6 *4(men) = 6.4 / vet2 = 10.4

okw:
default repair : 3 *4(men) = 12 / vet2 = 16 (sweeper upgrade adds another 4) = 20 (lol?)

usf:
default repair : 2 *4(men) = 8 / vet3 (5 men) = 15

brits:
default repair : 2 *4(men) = 8 / vet2 = 12 (with 5 men) 10/15 - ANvil upgrade = 25 (lol?)

I would rather they reduce the repair speed of UKF and OKW to match the other three armies. It's a bit ridiculous how fast OKW can repair a no health king tiger with repair station + pios, or how fast Brits cab repair with Anvil sappers. Makes it much less punishing to take damage on vehicles for those armies compared to the vanilla factions. Just another example of power creep, should be reduced for them rather than raised for the other factions.